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Rememberance

  

KDE Wallpaper 1280x1024

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Rememberance
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Link:  http://
Downloads:  324
Submitted:  Nov 25 2003
Updated:  Dec 2 2003

Description:

Why a Christmas bulb? Because imprisoned members of the underground church in China, (living on rations of perhaps 500 calories per day), are forced to assemble thousands of bulbs per day without tools, crimping them with their teeth. After a few hours of their minimum 16-20 hour day (kneeling in a 20x20 cell with 40 others),their fingers are bloodied and if they don't make their quota (AND keep up the quality), they are beaten mercilessly.

The author of the Book of Hebrews calls us to remember our brothers and sisters in Christ as though we were right there with them.

As we come into the season when we celebrate the birth of our Savior, let this be a reminder to ask for the Lord's protection for these who "let their light shine" in the darkness of a Chinese prison.

Tim

PS: For the full story, go to http://www.thelightsofchristmas.org. I think http://www.persecution.com and http://www.persecution.org has info on this as well.

NOTE: for those who have difficulty accepting these links because they are *not secular*, please check the following links.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/poisoning-the-well.html




Changelog:

Updated description.

Added second (darker and added detail to bulb glass) paper and added links to logical fallacy pages.

Added third paper with black background.




License: Artistic 2.0
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 go back to church

 
 by pelleas on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
pelleaspelleas

and leave this site alone.
enough propaganda.
quit forcing your shit beliefs on people.
it's a lie, dude.
get over it.
maybe the moral lessons of that book are good.
whooptie.
that doesnt mean you should force this crap on other people.
we dont want it.
the concensus has already been reached.
the majority at kde-look hates you.


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 Re: go back to church

 
 by Brahma on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
BrahmaBrahma

Amen!.


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 Re: go back to church

 
 by jukkamy on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
jukkamyjukkamy

I trust admins of KDE-Look will remove everything which is not allowed here. Maybe you should just skip the works that you don't like.


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 Re: Re: go back to c

 
 by Flanders on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
FlandersFlanders

Skipping is not easy since the thumbnail view on the index page does not show who the creator of a wallpaper is. The only way to find out is to view it.
Having said that: this one was easy to recognise. Even from the thumbnail view the trademark gradients and low quality of Tim's work are obvious.


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 Re: Re: Re: go back to c

 
 by NateTheMagi on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
NateTheMagiNateTheMagi
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so...uh...why'd ya click on it?

A card carrying Calvinistic card conjurer! www.astonishment.org
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 Re: Re: go back to c

 
 by Flanders on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
FlandersFlanders

Oh..and as for the admins..i wonder why he/they still have to notice that Tim is just hijacking this site to spread "the word".
His latest comment sais it all:


If we wait till we're given "permission", we'll never be able to speak! :)
I think it was Peter who underscored this principle when he said in his epistle to preach the Word, "in season and out of season". In other words, regardless of "appropriateness" or consequences. Whether you're ready or not. Whether it's on friendly turf or not. The stakes are too high.


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 Re: go back to church

 
 by NateTheMagi on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
NateTheMagiNateTheMagi
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"the majority at kde-look hates you."

And in doing so, show's it's own intolerance. Not to mention fullfiling every one of these scriptures:

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

1 John 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

A card carrying Calvinistic card conjurer! www.astonishment.org
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 Re: Re: go back to c

 
 by timbrown527 on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
timbrown527timbrown527
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...and i would add this from the Gospel of John, chapter 3, verse 17) For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[7] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

http://home.earthlink.net/~tjbrown527/atheisttest.html
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 Re: Re: go back to c

 
 by timbrown527 on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
timbrown527timbrown527
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From a a purely evidential standpoint, I would add that the only real "concensus" I see is that dozens of people have downloaded it...and the number FAR outstrips the small group that follows me around claiming that "no one wants it." I always get a chuckle out of that.

So much for accepting the plain evidence at the top of the page.

Again, thanks and blessings to you,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

http://home.earthlink.net/~tjbrown527/atheisttest.html
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 Great Job

 
 by JoeyJoeJoJr on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
JoeyJoeJoJrJoeyJoeJoJr

And to all those who are just going to flame this guy... 15 He (Jesus) said to them (the disciples), "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16


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 Re: Great Job

 
 by tihkal on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
tihkaltihkal

16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16
Oooooh. Funny how a religion that supposedly prides itself on tolerance has the notion that non believers will burn....


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 Re: Re: Great Job

 
 by NateTheMagi on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
NateTheMagiNateTheMagi
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"Funny how a religion that supposedly prides itself on tolerance has the notion that non believers will burn...."

Ehh...what does a divine pre-determined punishemnt have to do with human tolerance?

A card carrying Calvinistic card conjurer! www.astonishment.org
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 Re: Re: Re: Great Job

 
 by Flanders on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
FlandersFlanders

Ehh...what does a divine pre-determined punishemnt have to do with human tolerance?

You need to ask? Very sad indeed.


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Job

 
 by NateTheMagi on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
NateTheMagiNateTheMagi
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I didn't need to ask, it was more rhetorical. You got an answer? I'd love to hear it.

A card carrying Calvinistic card conjurer! www.astonishment.org
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by Flanders on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
FlandersFlanders

You don't seem to understand the point that tihkal is making. According to Mark 16:15-16 non believers will burn. In other words: non-believers will not be tollerated by God, even if they lead honarable and good lifes. Oh and why punish those who don't believe or have different religions? Wouldn't that be the result of a design flaw by God?



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by NateTheMagi on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
NateTheMagiNateTheMagi
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Uh..no..if you actually read what was said, "Funny how a religion that supposedly prides itself on tolerance...", the post was refering to human tolerance, not God's. It's a logical error of equivocation being made.

As for your statements, they demonstrate a lack of understanding of the actual doctrines as presented in Scripture. Can God be guilty of intolerance? Does the pot say to the potter, "why have you made me like this?" Or does not the potter have the right to make from the same clay, one pot for honor, and another for destruction? Who is the clay to answer back to the potter?

A card carrying Calvinistic card conjurer! www.astonishment.org

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by Flanders on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
FlandersFlanders

As for your statements, they demonstrate a lack of understanding of the actual doctrines as presented in Scripture.

What scripture whould the be? There are a lot of scriptures around, and not all have to do with Christianity....

Can God be guilty of intolerance?

You tell me. From what Mark 16:15-16 tell it definitly seems to be the case. (Assuming Mark speaks on behalf of God. Mmm interesting point: how do we actually know he wasn't making things up?)

Does the pot say to the potter, "why have you made me like this?"

Don't know. I don't tend to have conversations with pots. ;)

Or does not the potter have the right to make from the same clay, one pot for honor, and another for destruction?

Never known a potter to destroy a perfectly good pot, only ones that are faulty or broken during fireing. If God is perfect there won't be any faulty pots that need destruction. Are you implying that God isn't perfect?

Who is the clay to answer back to the potter?

Clay doesn't, humans do.



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by 0xdeadbeef on: Nov 26 2003  
Score 50%
0xdeadbeef0xdeadbeef

Funny how people make a difference between living and dead things as the situation requires it. A pot does not live, which distinguishes it from your average human. I did take a look at that atheist test Tim Brown advertises in his signature, they made the same mistake. (In that case, asking for the evolution of the coke can. Until then, I fell for the illusion that coke cans do neither reproduce themselves, nor mutate, nor choose their sexual partners...)

Anyway, your pot metaphor strengthens my point that if a god exists, this is not a good thing.



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 Re: Re: Great Job

 
 by Flanders on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
FlandersFlanders

Ah look on the bright site. Nearly everyone will end up in hell according to these guys. It's gonna be one great BBQ party ;)


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 Re: Re: Re: Great Jo

 
 by timbrown527 on: Nov 30 2003  
Score 50%
timbrown527timbrown527
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Uh huh...

http://www.ccel.org/e/edwards/sermons/sinners.html

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

http://home.earthlink.net/~tjbrown527/atheisttest.html
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 Re: Re: Great Job

 
 by joshuarogers4tss on: Nov 26 2003  
Score 50%
joshuarogers4tssjoshuarogers 4tss
Home

I'm sorry. We're based on tolerance? Uh, no, I don't think so. Christianity isn't based on "You be nice, I'll be nice, let's sing songs around a tree." It's based on spreading the story of Jesus, about his holy life and about forgiveness for sins.

Oh, and by the way, I like your backgrounds.


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 Re: Re: Re: Great Jo

 
 by timbrown527 on: Nov 26 2003  
Score 50%
timbrown527timbrown527
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Thanks....for the compliment and the mention of what Christianity is *not* about.

You know, in a very strange way I can imagine what it was like for Noah to build the ark all those years when no one had any idea what rain was...and ignored all the warnings. They learned -- to late -- that God's ways are not our ways...His thoughts are not our thoughts. He is the divine "other".

After a while, and I can say this in all honesty, you learn to ignore the catcalls and hecklers...and you finally get to a point where you just focus on what God is doing. And I praise God for how He has used this in my life to strengthen my faith and care less and less about the affirmation of others. Worldly affirmation is a deadly trap.

God is faithful. Thanks, and hang in there!

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

http://home.earthlink.net/~tjbrown527/atheisttest.html
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 Re: Great Job

 
 by timbrown527 on: Nov 26 2003  
Score 50%
timbrown527timbrown527
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*from the Gospel of John, chapter 3, verse 18 "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."*

People don't understand that they are already under God's judgement...and that God stands ready in His mercy to save them. Kind of like a person who is drowning...If you trust the guy in the boat when he reaches out to you, you can be rescued. If not, your decision has already doomed you...and of course there is no guarantee that your next breath will be yours. It's by God's sheer mercy that he doesn't just blow us all away out of His holy, pure justice...and it's His grace that offers us salvation through Christ.

He didn't have to do that...but He did!

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

http://home.earthlink.net/~tjbrown527/atheisttest.html
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 FUNNY-NOT

 
 by NateTheMagi on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
NateTheMagiNateTheMagi
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Funny how the flames in this thread have not even mentioned the substance of the original post. I'll bet they'd be up in arms if it was any other religios group being afflicted.

Nevermind responding to the actual issues presented, a reminder of enslaved people, lets tout a bunch of hatefull remarks, cuz that'll show those Christians...

It really goes to demonstrate your level of tolerance when you care more to flame than to honor the memory of those who live in such inhumane circumstances.

Cheers TimBrown, your patriotism is much appreciated :-)

A card carrying Calvinistic card conjurer! www.astonishment.org
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 I don't care!

 
 by Chris308 on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
Chris308Chris308

I don't care about those damn chinks or about those damn towel heads over in Iraq. I don't care about those being persecuted in North Korea. I don't care about those with Aids in Africa. Wait a miniute, I'm starting to sound as compasionate and caring as the enlightened liberals. :-(

It is truly sad when a man drawing attention to those being persecuted is himself attacked by so called enlightened people.

Even if you don't agree with his religious views, you must agree that this situation in China should be stopped.

In life their are those that talk and those that attempt to make the world a better place. Ask yourself, which one am I.

I'm a caring liberal, I don't actually need to do anything!
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 gone too far.

 
 by kaha on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
kahakaha

Great, now the subject subtly shifts (as it generally does) from expression of faith to cultural bashing.

Tim, can you cite references for your claims? References not from some christian fundie propaganda site?

And Chris308, really. Chinks? Towel heads?
Please tell me that was a troll, and not the inbred droolings of the sort of bible-thumping neocon that gives christians a bad name in the first place.

Honestly, folks... kde-look has hit a new all-time low.


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 Re: gone too far.

 
 by timPLEZdrown527 on: Nov 25 2003  
Score 50%
timPLEZdrown527timPLEZdrown 527
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"Tim, can you cite references for your claims? References not from some christian fundie propaganda site?"

Of course he can not cite any historical references, nor can anyone else who believes as he does. Ask them why in Daniel 5:1-2, Daniel claims King Belshazzar as the son of Nebuchadnezzar. Yet, the facts of history, as dug up in the archeological record, prove that not only was Belshazzar never a king, but his father was named Nabonidos, not Nebuchadnezzar. But if you press people like this for facts, you will not EVER actually be given any facts, nor any sensible explanation as to how Daniel, and the rest of the Bible, got so many facts completely wrong.

Ask them how they can follow a God, who claims to be just and moral, after he tells the Hebrews:

As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession for ever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness. Leviticus 25:44-46

The only thing these proselytizers will tell you is that slaves back then were not really slaves. No, really, they just called it slavery just to call it that. That was not what it really was. Even though you could buy people who become your property, it really was not slavery. Even though you could bequeth your property, I mean slaves, to your sons, it reall was not slavery.

Exodus 21:20-21, lets us know that this explanation, "It really was not slavery," is totally bogus:

"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money."

So we see here, it was totally legal, under the god this guy worships, to KILL ANOTHER MAN and not be punished! See, slavery really was slavery! Slave owners held the power of life and death in their hands, all accordingto this god's
will. But really, it wasn't slavery, to hear the proselytizers tell it.

Further, you can press believers of this particular myth to explain why, if Herod slaughtered all male children under the age of 2, in order to kill Jesus, why is there NO RECORD OF IT ANYWHERE in the historical record? Don't you think if all male children under age 2 were slaughtered in ANY nation, people would record such a tragedy? Of course they would, yet for this little fairy tale, no such evidence exists! I have put this question to this TimBrown person 3 times already. Do you think he has bothered to answer the question? Of course not!

To go even one step further, ask them why the nativity scene is painted in 4 scenes, in the temple of Luxor and these painting have been there since 1538 BC. Admittedly, the names in this nativity scene are different, as it has the virgin mother Isis, the baby Horus and Anup is the Holy Ghost who impregnates the virgin mother Isis. But if these tales of Jesus are so obviously true, then why were the Egyptians telling the same tall tales, complete with a nativity scene & 3 magi, over 1500 years before the alleged birth of Christ? Once you have posed this question to the proselytizers you will greatly enjoy the peace and queit you will experience, as they fall completely silent.

And this is why we must press these proselytizers for facts and evidence. It is only then that they will finally shut up with these outrageous claims for which they have no evidence whatsoever.

I like to force my morals and religious opinions on everyone, at the most inappropriate of times and places, whether anyone wishes to hear them or not!
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 Re: Re: gone too far.

 
 by Linuster on: Nov 26 2003  
Score 50%
LinusterLinuster

"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money." Ex. 21:20-21

Whose translation is this? According to the KJV, it is translated as follows:

"And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he [the servant] continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

"Continue" probably means continue working. Furthermore, the NIV, which is not based on the 'censored' LXX, says the following:

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

So your exegesis is not correct. You certainly have the right (and the knowledge) to criticize Christianity. However, please cite your sources, and don't jump to conclusions.








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 Re: Re: Re: gone too far.

 
 by kaha on: Nov 26 2003  
Score 50%
kahakaha

um... I meant references about the treatment of these people in China.

I note that he posted two links, but both are fundie sites. Nothing from Amnesty International or any international human welfare organization.


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 Re: Re: gone too far.

 
 by MagiNathan on: Nov 26 2003  
Score 50%
MagiNathanMagiNathan
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Can't login using my normal account right now, but this post was so appaulingly full of...well, I had to create a new account to reply.

Of course he can not cite any historical references, nor can anyone else who believes as he does.

Talk about a lack of sources, your post shows a curious lack of them as well. How annoyingly hypocritical :-) Nor can anyone else, eh? I'm about to prove you wrong.

Yet, the facts of history, as dug up in the archeological record, prove that not only was Belshazzar never a king, but his father was named Nabonidos, not Nebuchadnezzar. But if you press people like this for facts, you will not EVER actually be given any facts

Fact 1: You are behind the recent archeological data.

There is fairly conclusive evidence that Belshazzar was elevated to secondary kingship during the time of Uzziah in the kingdom of Judah--a common practice in ancient times in order to secure a peaceful succession. Recent archaeological discoveries indicate that Belshazzar was in charge of the northern frontier of the Babylonian empire while his father Nabodinus maintained his headquarters at Teman in North Arabia. Among the discoveries at the site of Ur is an inscription of Nabunaid containing a prayer for Nabunaid himself followed by a second prayer for his firstborn son, Bel-shar-usur, such prayers being customarily offered only for the reigning monarch. Still other cuneiform documents attest that Belshazzar presented sheep and oxen at the temples in Sippar as 'an offering of the king.'
Source: Archer [Arch.SOT, 391-2]

Ask them how they can follow a God, who claims to be just and moral, after he tells the Hebrews:

Ok, the slavery issue? Are you kidding me? We've just fallen back hundreds of years in apologetics... Need I say that these laws were unprecedented in the ancient world? It is not so easy to throw a blanket view of perception and apply it to historical cultures. Not that you'll read it...but here's a source that will shed some insight. http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qnoslave.html

if Herod slaughtered all male children under the age of 2, in order to kill Jesus, why is there NO RECORD OF IT ANYWHERE in the historical record? Don't you think if all male children under age 2 were slaughtered in ANY nation, people would record such a tragedy?

Ooh Puleeez! Tell me, o' repeater of skeptic bull, what was the population of Bethlehem at that time? Huh? Dunno? Thought so. Realisticly, the total amount of boys 2 and under in that tiny city would've been, what...10-30? I mean, let's be realistic here :-) As J.P. Holding says, "Jospehus tells us that there were many atrocities that Herod committed that he does not mention in his histories - and it is probable that authorizing the killing of the presumably few male infants in the vicinity of Bethlehem was a minuscule blot of the blackness that was the reign of Herod."

ask them why the nativity scene is painted in 4 scenes, in the temple of Luxor

Sheesh man...is this the best you can do? Cite your sources for one. For two, you're just plain wrong.

"But after she [i.e., Isis] had brought it [i.e. Osiris' body] back to Egypt, Seth managed to get hold of Osiris's body again and cut it up into fourteen parts, which she scattered all over Egypt. Then Isis went out to search for Osiris a second time and buried each part where she found it (hence the many tombs of Osiris tht exist in Egypt). The only part that she did not find was the god's penis, for Seth had thrown it into the river, where it had been eaten by a fish; Isis therefore fashioned a substitute penis to put in its place. She had also had sexual intercourse with Osisis after his death, which resulted in the conception and birth of his posthumous son, Harpocrates, Horus-the-child. Osiris became king of the netherworld, and Horus proceeded to fight with Seth..." -Frazer [Fraz.AAO, 8]

I know of no carving you mention. And the scholars on Egyptian mythology have Horus being born in a swamp! In fact, the only reference I can find of the carving you mention is in Acharya's Christ Conspiracy [114-116]; a point she was pressed on at her website and was never able to substantiate.

Christians giving answers? Wow, what a concept! Get used to it :-)

www.astonishment.org
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 Tim...

 
 by slackdude on: Nov 25 2003  
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slackdudeslackdude
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Tim, I commend you on doing what so many Christians are afraid to do because of persecution. Though sometimes I feel the artwork itself could be a little cleaner, I commend you for having the courage to share what you believe.

All this backlash is expected, as it is stated in the Matthew 5:10-12:

"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

Last I checked, the Internet was all about freedom of expression. It seems it's ok for pornography, hate, and violence to be expressed on the Internet, but let's all bring in the censors when it comes to something like the Good News of Jesus Christ. Others have posted submissions regarding their faith beliefs, and yet anything having to do with Christianity is received with utter disdain.

Again, so-called "tolerance" rears it's ugly head. If you don't believe the message, if you don't believe that you have sin in your life as everyone does, as Tim does, as I do, and that God has given a gift, his son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for all of our sins past present and future through his death and resurrection, then don't read on. The choice is yours to make, and it's not forced upon you. Tim and others are as free to express their beliefs as many of you are to criticize them. Sure you have to go into the submission to see who it is, but if you read it and don't agree with it, move on to the next submission and that's it. Many people are thankful for his posts. Not all of KDE-Look "hates" him or others like him.


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 Re: Tim...

 
 by timbrown527 on: Nov 25 2003  
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timbrown527timbrown527
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Thanks for the encouragement.

About the art, well, sometimes it's the nature of art...sometimes it's just learning. This one in particular I DID expect someone to pick apart because I drew that bulb by hand...I figured since they are putting them together by hand, it would be rather cheap of me to make a nice slick one from a photo, etc.

About the rest...no surprises, nothing new. They look at it by sheer choice...as has been said in this particular thread, my work (this one in particular) could be forseen by my "hallmark" gradient. Of course, the choice was still made. Then made repeatedly to come back. But somehow it is "forced" on them.

I won't dare compare myself to the apostle Paul, but I'm remembering how he was beaten up, thrown out of Jerusalem and left for dead...and then got right back up and marched back to Jerusalem to win more for Christ. It's not much different, really, as far as attitude is concerned...and Jesus Christ Himself said "you have heard it was said that you shall not kill...but I say to you that if you hate your brother you are guilty of murder." This anger just hasn't come to it's physical expression...yet. But if it does, it does. The scriptures have foretold us what's coming up. How the nations are aligning. It's all coming together. "I know in Whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have entrusted with Him against that Day." (the day of Judgement).

So, we pray for them because Christ died for them; to redeem them from their sin and restore a right relationship with God.

I pity them; they don't get it...yet.

Blessings

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

http://home.earthlink.net/~tjbrown527/atheisttest.html
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