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Got Christ?

  

KDE Wallpaper 1280x1024

Score 35%
timbrown527timbrown527
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Got Christ?
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Got Christ?
zoom

Link:  http://
Downloads:  389
Submitted:  Oct 7 2003
Updated:  Oct 16 2003

Description:

For other evangelical Christians...a great improvement over the original.

"Believe on" is accurate...from the KJV...which was chosen over other translations due to the faithfulness to the original idea; that of trusting, not just intellectual ascent.

If you haven't already done so, and have the time, why not send KDE-LOOK an email thanking them for allowing a variety of work? Thanks!




Changelog:

Replaced "glowing steel" effect with regular drop shadow.

Added second paper.




License: Artistic 2.0
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 ugh

 
 by Fingel on: Oct 7 2003  
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It might look ok if the font didn't look like crap. Try smoothing it out a little.


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 Re: ugh

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 7 2003  
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That was a "glowing steel" logo. I debated changing it last night but wasn't totally convinced about doing it. Thanks for giving me a "push". Sometimes that helps in decision making.

TIm

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: ugh

 
 by helpmaria on: Oct 8 2003  
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helpmariahelpmaria

Yes, my mom said to me tim must go to the doctor!


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 Nooooo,....

 
 by Brahma on: Oct 7 2003  
Score 50%
BrahmaBrahma

...he's coming back to evangelize us!!

LOL, try it again with other picture, man. This one sucks a lot.


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 crap

 
 by servoj98 on: Oct 7 2003  
Score 50%
servoj98servoj98

and don't forget jesus's brothers and sisters (you actually beleve that after jesus joseph and mary didn't get down to more serious humping?)

stop with the religious stuff, make wallpapers about things that don't cause 80% of the worlds problems


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 Re: crap

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 7 2003  
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...I don't know why, but you are assuming I'm Catholic. The scriptures teach that Joseph "...kept her a virgin UNTIL..." the birth of Christ. And that is what I believe.

Thanks in any case,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: crap

 
 by servoj98 on: Oct 7 2003  
Score 50%
servoj98servoj98

actually i'm assuming your just some other religious dumb person, anyone with any smarts would realise god can't exist, even if he did he's dead now (imortality real, ha all living things die, and there is no imortaility)

anyway you go be mentally ill and talk to some guy who don't exist (calling nearest mental hostpital for you)

and stop posting religious crap on the boards. or i'll start posting pictures of jesus on the T shape wooden thing (no it was not a cross) getting raped by necrophiliacs.


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 Re: Re: Re: crap

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 7 2003  
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"No God"? How did you arrive at this "fact"? Do you believe everything popped into existence out of nothing on its own? On what do you base this belief? Takes greater faith than I have to believe this way!

When you need something, do you wait for it to appear on it's own accord?...or do you go to someone who got it from someone who *Made It*?

More importantly, if you have no hard evidence for what you believe, why do you believe it? Justify your lifestyle? Sounds like your "religion" to me...

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Loop

 
 by gvs on: Oct 16 2003  
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Please do not try that argument on anyone, the church tried that on me when I was 12.

If the Universe can't either have appeared out of thin air (or something else as yet unknown) or have existed forever, then where would this god thing have come from?


If an infinite complex universe supposes an intelligent creator, wouldn't that infinite complex creater have to be created itself?


The argument just plain and simply loops, it is logically inconsistent.


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 Re: Loop

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 16 2003  
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God is a Person, and is an eternal being.

Does space have an end? Is there a brick there that says "the end"? What's past the brick?

We could ask these types of questions all day long.

All I know is that things don't just pop into existence ex nihilo. It'd be NICE but I don't expect it. I could use a new car. Perhaps if I clean my garage out and wait 10 or 20 years, a new chevy will show up from nowhere.

See, we don't live that way because it is absurd!

Thanks,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: Loop

 
 by gvs on: Oct 16 2003  
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gvsgvs
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OK, you propose that god is eternal, but it would go no further to state that the universe is eternal.

I'm not claiming that the universe is eternal or infinite, I do not have sufficient data to support that assertion.

But when making any kind of argument, you need to maintain internal consistency of your own statement, and frankly, yours loops.



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 Re: Re: Loop

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 16 2003  
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I'd have to check but I believe there is a law of science that blocks eternality of matter.

Besides, please tell me if you do or don't expect things to have a maker?

If your computer had to be designed, why didn't your brain have to be designed? This is just an argument from the lesser to the greater...

Wouldn't you think I was nuts if I said my athlon computer came from nowhere??? Isn't this kind of absurd?

Just curious...

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Loop

 
 by AresTheImpaler on: Oct 16 2003  
Score 50%
AresTheImpalerAresTheImpal er

God is not a person. He is a spiritual being. Get your facts straights.

You were saying that it is very unfortunate that there are many persons that call themselves Christians when they are not. You also said that they are the ones that make all 'real' Christians look bad. You are almost doing the same by not spreading the Word the way it is. Unless you are a Mormon, and well, you are not Christian either.



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 Re: God as a person

 
 by uninet on: Oct 16 2003  
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uninetuninet
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God is not a person. He is a spiritual being. Get your facts straights.

Actually God can be a person and a spiritual being. People often misunderstand the term "person." Person != human being. Person is someone with a will, an ego.

I could say "God is an ego," but then you would think I was saying God is egotistical, which I'm not. The problem is most of these words have both a scholarly and common usage meaning, but in this case we need to use the scholarly meaning.

-Tim B.

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." -Jim Elliot

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 Re: Re: Loop

 
 by AresTheImpaler on: Oct 16 2003  
Score 50%
AresTheImpalerAresTheImpal er

Actually God can be a person and a spiritual being. People often misunderstand the term "person." Person != human being. Person is someone with a will, an ego.

I could say "God is an ego," but then you would think I was saying God is egotistical, which I'm not. The problem is most of these words have both a scholarly and common usage meaning, but in this case we need to use the scholarly meaning.

-Tim B.


Sorry, but you are wrong. God is not a person. You might say that humans are created in his images:

So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27

But God is not a person. He indeed became a person when He came to earth as Jesus Christ.

By the way, person is defined as a human or an individual, not as you were implying. don't believe me, get a dicctionary and look for meaning yourself.



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 Re: Re: Loop

 
 by uninet on: Oct 17 2003  
Score 50%
uninetuninet
Universal Networks
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Not to argue or anything, but person is used in the context of describing God. Here, let's consider the dictionary:

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913):
3. A living, self-conscious being, as distinct from an animal or a thing; a moral agent; a human being; a man, woman, or child.

The emphasis is mine.

It continues later on:
6. (Theol.) Among Trinitarians, one of the three subdivisions of the Godhead (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost); an hypostasis. ``Three persons and one God.'' --Bk. of Com. Prayer.

Again, emphasis is mine.

The God of the Bible is a personal God, that is, He is not just a cosmic force. If something is personal, it is "Of or pertaining to a particular person" (Webster's).

-Tim

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." -Jim Elliot

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 Re: Re: Loop

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 17 2003  
Score 50%
timbrown527timbrown527
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AriesTheImpaler (what a nic!)

Personhood = Mind, emotion and will. Man is uniquely created in God's image with these attributes. God is spirit, we are physical but we both have these three things...this is what was meant by the "image of God". Nothing physical.

You are misrepresenting what I said about false claims of others to be believers. I was talking about unrepentant sin patterns in a life, not flawlessly teaching true biblical doctrine. As flawed human beings, we're going to mess something up. HOwever, the Bible DOES teach that a real believer won't be unrepentant about known sin, such as the guy who killed the abortion doctor.

Thanks anyway,
Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Loop

 
 by uninet on: Oct 16 2003  
Score 50%
uninetuninet
Universal Networks
Home

If the Universe can't either have appeared out of thin air (or something else as yet unknown) or have existed forever, then where would this god thing have come from?

Well, look at it this way. The physical universe is governed by a set of laws. These laws make up what we consider reality. Ex nihilo creation, like the Big Bang, is impossible within our reality.

So, if it is impossible within the context of the physical universe for something to come out of nothingness, we must move away from the "scientific" no matter whether we attempt to come up with a "scientific sounding" answer of a theological answer.

At least the theological answer can come up with a rational concept: that God is not part of His creation, so he is outside the contrants of what we consider reality (that is the space/time continuum that we live in). God created space and time and so He is not governed by its laws.

Since we can only understand that which happens within the context of our reality, God's eternal existence is hard to get our minds around. However, at least it makes sense -- a supernatural being shouldn't necessarily be limited by what we understand.

On the other hand, matter should always be in the realm of scientific logic, and so how can matter do something supernatural like come out of nowhere without supernatural "help"?

The other option is to decide that existance is absurd and sit around until you can convince yourself that you don't exist... but that is not an easy job! :-)

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." -Jim Elliot
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 Re: crap

 
 by lazychris2000 on: Oct 7 2003  
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lazychris2000lazychris200 0

80% of the world's problems.....i dont follow...whered u get that number, and what did u base it on?


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 Re: Re: crap

 
 by gvs on: Oct 16 2003  
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gvsgvs
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He does have a point, think 9/11, think crusades, think inquisition...

Religious people seem to have this weird preoccupation with killing all those who have a different religion, or worse for them, no religion at all.

This still goes on today, president Bush once stated that he did not consider atheists to be citizens, he did not think they had any rights.


OK, I'm not saying that all religious people want to kill of the rest of the world, but it does make you think, doesn't it...


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 Re: Re: Re: crap

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 16 2003  
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timbrown527timbrown527
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The real problem is lumping all religions together. The term "Christianity" has come to mean just about anyone who isn't muslim, jewish, etc. Americans are lumped together as "Christians".

TRUE Christianity is not an institution. It's not a church. It's a relationship with the risen Christ...and Jesus didn't teach that we should go around killing others...but rather to "love our enemies"...in other words, be willing to meet their needs as if they were our own and die for them if need be, just as Christ did for us.

I have no desire to kill anyone, and the apostle John said in 1 John that "no murder has eternal life". Remember the guy who killed the abortion doctor and was unrepentant all the way to his execution? The bible says his claim to be a Christian is false.

Maybe this will clarify things. Maybe not.

Thanks for your input,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: crap

 
 by shadowx8m on: Nov 28 2003  
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I totally agree, stop with all the moronic, brainwashed, christian stuff. You might be able to develope talent if you weren't so busy praying to something that's not there.

Life is like a box of chocolates, the longer you hold it in your hands the more it melts.
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 Please...

 
 by aergern on: Oct 7 2003  
Score 50%
aergernaergern
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If your going to make a wallpaper ..whatever it says or shows.. at least make it with some artistic ability. This wallpaper is a bad cut and paste job with horrid fonts. Do something worthy of the person who downloads it and looks at it for hours on end while at their computer.

If not then this is just preaching.


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 some thoughts

 
 by muddysmind on: Oct 7 2003  
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I think the art is ok, not stunning.
The message is good. I think Tim has some balls posting it up here, kudos on that.
I don't use Christ themed wallpaper myself. However this site is open to all forms of wallpaper, you should all recognize that. I've seen half naked women that nobody complained about, yet your all crying and throwing a fit over a few words.

Sad, and here I was thinking the Linux community was above that.


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 Re: some thoughts

 
 by beeeeef on: Oct 7 2003  
Score 50%
beeeeefbeeeeef

i think religious stuff is best kept to him/herself... some people always get wrong messages.

like this one. how are non-christians suppose to take it?


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 Re: Re: some thoughts

 
 by leinir on: Oct 7 2003  
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leinirleinir
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Exactly the same way as Christians take non-Christian propaganda (as you might call it):
With anger (never got anyone anywhere worth going)
By ignoring it
Tollerance (the one that has seemed to work best, i.e. nobody gets hurt)

And, that said, I have to say the same as Tim himself noticed: Art is in the eye of the beholder. The technical quality is what can, and in this forum should, be discussed. This is technically ok, nothing out of the ordinary, but definately far better than many things seen here.

..Dan // Leinir
http://www.leinir.dk/
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 Re: Re: Re: some tho

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 7 2003  
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Thanks... I knew I had to do something other than what is becoming a "Blue Gradient with a blue bar" syndrome.

The cross is a picture of one made of pewter which is not in perfect shape anyway. Then add the problem of enlarging it. I'm sure that eventually I'll improve on it.

Regarding things I don't like on KDE-LOOK, I just move along and ignore them.

Thanks,
Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: some thought

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 7 2003  
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While your question wasn't to me, maybe I can answer it for you.

Your view that a person's beliefs should be kept to himself ("privatized") is directly opposed to what Christ said when he said in Matthew 28 to go and spread the message. So, to privatize my faith, I must basically deny the charge given me by the Lord through His Word. I won't do that.

Can ideas be misunderstood? Sure! But I don't think you really want to silence anything that can be misunderstood.

How are non-Christians supposed to take it? As a proclaimation of the Gospel, which you are free to accept or reject. Jesus Christ (according to even secular historians) lived and died on the cross. The New Testament tells us why; as a substitute for us to pay for our sin.

God is JUST. He is also perfectly holy he cannot allow anything unholy in His presence. Since we are fallen, we can't do anything to save ourselves. So, God sent His Son to pay the penalty for us. By placing our trust in his finished work, we become "redeemed"...children of God. It's a 2000 year old message, which finds its roots even in the Old Testament.

So, the Judge has found you guilty, assessed an infinite fine against you, then come around this side of the bench and paid it...it's a gift that is yours to accept or reject.

Thanks, and blessings to you,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: Re: some tho

 
 by Soyburg on: Oct 7 2003  
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So, to privatize my faith, I must basically deny the charge given me by the Lord through His Word. I won't do that.

If someone ties a bomb around his waist and blows up a busload of school children and claims in the video taped before his death that his Lord charged him with the task - would you believe it would be any relief to the innocent bystanders or their relatives? Let's say my Lord charges me to deal dope to your children - would you like that?

Thomas Jefferson (the guy whose pic is on one of the dollar bills, Jefferson. Remember?) once wrote

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my god and myself alone.


and

Our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to our God alone

If he could keep his faith to himself, why can't you?

Since we are fallen, we can't do anything to save ourselves.

Where is your proof, that I am fallen? Did you just draw that out of your hat?


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: some

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 7 2003  
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Well, first, I assume you are really interested in an answer. Under that assumption, let me say the following:

Thomas Jefferson is not my "standard". Besides, I believe he was a Deist, not a Christian. The "great commission" would mean nothing to him.

Secondly, I find it hard to believe you are comparing my wallpaper and the scripture I've put there with bus bombings and dealing dope to children. You aren't forced to view this, much less respond. that is your choice and responsibility. You are not a "helpless victim", as implied by your analogy.

Thirdly, the fact that we all DIE is a sign that we are a fallen race. "Death came into the world through sin." At Creation, there was no death. It was all "good". We were created in God's image...(with an intellect, emotion and will) but the image has become corrupted...that's why we have killings, etc. James 4:1 says it's all because we live for "self!". Another product of the fall.

No doubt you will reject this, which is why I question even answering you; but archeology and even secular history have verified the accuracy of the scriptures. When the Bible speaks of science, it is accurate...even written in a time when the authors had "no way" of knowing that what they were saying was scientifically true. For a long time, secularists said that Solomon was a myth...then the archaeologists found all kinds of artifacts that verify the scriptures. Now, it's "Ok". Then David...and on and on.

As a follower of Jesus Christ, I did not put my faith in something that has no objective basis. Here's a problem for you...disprove the ressurection! The best of skeptics, athiests and other types have tried for over 2000 years and many of them have come to the conviction that Christianity is true as a result of trying to prove it false. From secular history, we know that Christ lived and died on a cross...in fact, Josephus (who was not a believer at all) said of Jesus ..."If it be lawful that he be called a man..." before speaking of the accounts of his great works. It was a statement of elevation.

I would ask you what hard *scientific* evidence you have for the Darwin fish? Or maybe where the space came from for the universe? Do you believe everything came from *nothing*. On what basis? How did the "scientific method" turn this into fact?

You know there are a number of prominent evolutionary scientists who are coming out in the open about evolution being a religion...that no matter what science says...we are to hold to evolution.

While the fossils aren't being found, biblical artifacts are being dug up. The discovery of a trail of egyptian chariots that just seemed to go running into the Red Sea? Hmmm. The bible says that Pharoah was killed there too...and they did find a chariot that matches what he would have as the Pharoah of Egypt.

I'm really slow to add this because I'm not into self defense, but I think I will...I hear so much about "pushing my views on others"...Well, use your backarrow! Besides, to tell someone to be quiet...is THAT not "pushing your views on others?"

Thanks for your input.

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by Soyburg on: Oct 8 2003  
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1.) I prefer knowledge over belief.

2.) I do not like to be preached upon. As you do. Most discussions in here are about artistic merit. Most discussions in your posts are about religion. So I get the impression that this is the main reason for your posts. To have missionary discussions in here. I just think it is not the right place for this.

3.) Please don't sell the bible as hard facts. Do you have any proof for the walking-on-water bit?

4.) As with all myth there are some historical facts in the bible, sure. Buddha who lived 500 years before Jesus was a historical person as well. Wasn't he. But although his teachings were rather a help to me and my life, I am not here to convince anybody else that they might be to him or her, or that they are scientifically accurate. And I would be really turned off, if all the Muslims and the Jews and the Catholics and the Zoroastrians and the Satanists and the Freemasons in here would start putting up stuff for their cause. This is not a site to mission people into your belief. It is about art.

5.) Fools talk - wise men listen. Which makes me a fool. But think about it.

6.) I studied geology and majored in hydrogeology. And whatever you may think about "job's hydrology" - it ain't scientifically accurate. Hell no. No it ain't.


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 8 2003  
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1.) I prefer knowledge over belief.

***
So Do I. That's why I came to the conclusion I did. Evidence. By the way, you didn't answer my questions about evolution. You merely returned with questions! Show me the hard science with good hard answers! If there is knowlege there, put it on display! For example, where is the fossil for what is drawn as the "Darwin Fish"? It sure looks convincing! If a cell can't live without all it's parts, who could it have evolved? Before a "kind" developed blood clotting how could it even live to evolve?
***

2.) I do not like to be preached upon. As you do. Most discussions in here are about artistic merit. Most discussions in your posts are about religion. So I get the impression that this is the main reason for your posts.

***
what people post in this thread is their responsibility. I only respond to what I receive. Is your post about artistic merit? Fair enough?
***

3.) Please don't sell the bible as hard facts. Do you have any proof for the walking-on-water bit?

***
I have solid evidence for the credibility of the Word of God. Again, the core of Christianity is the ressurrection. We know Christ lived. We know He died on a cross. Numerous reports from that day (or close to that day) testify the tomb was empty. Yet, from all we know about crucifixion and how the tomb was guarded, the tomb was suddenly empty. So, prove that Christianity is a hoax by dealing with this...!
***

4.) As with all myth...

***
So what's mythical about the scriptures? They used to say Solomon and David were mythical, THEN the archaeologists proved the skeptics wrong. I don't need a skeptic's 'approval' to accept the evidence I have. You know, for some people, there is no such thing as *enough* evidence.
***

6.) I studied geology and majored in hydrogeology. And whatever you may think about "job's hydrology" - it ain't scientifically accurate. Hell no. No it ain't.

***
Well, I had a wonderful (evolutionist) geology professor who had a doctorate in Geology. He made sure I understoond it. I aced his course. I beg to differ. I think the problem is that it's not couched in *precisely* the *right* terms. How did Job know that 'water goes up and is stored in clouds" 4000 years ago? Please, tell me.
***

Thanks for helping my understanding,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by gvs on: Oct 16 2003  
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LOL, you lock yourself up in your own reasoning.

Please disprove to me that there is no extra planet in our starsystem, lets say it is next to mars.

like in the religious argument, you may not use the absence of any evidence that it is there as proof that it doesn't exist, please provide me *evidence* of its non-existance.

You *can't*, that is impossible to do, the fact that it does not exist presents itself through the absence of evidence of existance!


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 16 2003  
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Great! At least I got you to see the silliness of assuming there is no God!

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 16 2003  
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*you may not use the absence of any evidence that it is there as proof that it doesn't exist*

I believe there is ample evidence from which to draw a conclusion. And, I think it makes far more sense to assume that things we see around us were made...we certainly live our daily routine lives that way, don't we?

Yet even if we assume "no evidence" for God, your statement tells me that you cannot make an assumption that GOd doesn't exist.

Oh, excuse me, a jeep just popped into existence in my driveway...!

Matter doesn't create itself from nothing. Matter is not eternal. God, as a Person, can certainly be eternal. Things have a cause and there must ultimately be an *uncaused cause*.

Again, we don't live that way.

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by gvs on: Oct 16 2003  
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I am also a person, so am I eternal?

You are making up rules, matter can't be eternal, a person can, who says?

There is no evidence to support the theory of a god but the fact that some people just think he is there.

But people see Elvis every day too, there are even people who think caesar still lives, and they also offer no proof.



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 16 2003  
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Again, if you assume that the things around you were made by someone, why do we get mystical about things popping into existence from nothing all on their own?

No one + nothing = everything??? Is that science?

The only "evolution" we can observe is "microevolution" or variation within kind. Just as it says in Genesis, things reproduce "after their own kind".

Where did your computer come from? What it designed? Did "chance" really do all the stuff that we can't do on purpose????

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by gvs on: Oct 16 2003  
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gvsgvs
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Again, there is not evidence of any god, but regardless of that the argument of everything out of nothing stays the same.
Where did god come from?
It is logically inconsistent to assume god to be eternal, yet dismiss even the possibility of the universe being so.

BTW, I never claimed the Darwins *theory* to be absolutely proven. It is still a theory, with evidence to support it, but we do not have sufficient evidence to actually make the theory a water-tight fact.

It does however make a lot more sence than this invisble guy snipping his invisible fingers and everything appearing as-is.



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 17 2003  
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No, the laws of thermodynamics prohibit eternality of matter. The law of energy conservation says that no new energy is being created, just consumed. Things go from order to disorder. Things run down.

Evolution says things are going uphill, which is contrary to the 2nd law of thermodynamics which states things go from order to disorder.

The law of biogenesis says that life comes from life, not dead matter. My coffee cup will not produce a living form of life. It's just fired clay! Does the law of Biogenesis mean anything or are we just tossing that out to get our theory to work? And if we accept that, then *anything* can pop into being from *anywhere* at *anytime*. Have you observed that at all? I don't think so!
So, we're back to cleaning my garage and waiting for a new chevy to appear ex nihilo!

Life can only come from life. God is/was that life!

What makes more sense? That things were made by someone (which is how you really live) or that things just *pop* into existence? Don't you expect a manufacturer of the things you own?

Thanks,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 17 2003  
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GVS:

You said:

*you may not use the absence of any evidence that it is there as proof that it doesn't exist*

Then later you turn around and say there is no evidence for the existence of God, only that people think He exists, like Elvis.

UHmmmm...you can't have it both ways. You seem bound and determined to use the "lack of evidence" as an excuse to prop up evolution and at the same time shoot down theism!

That is intellectual dishonesty!

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Re: some tho

 
 by gvs on: Oct 16 2003  
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And does this justifies monopolizing about 80% of the schools (in my country), forcing people in court to swear on the bible (up to about 1998 in my country) regardless of their own beliefs.

I had a christian upbringing, I was forced to go to catholic schools and I will never tolerate the same for my children, I will not allow anyone to push that upon them.


If you want to believe, that is your right, but keep it as far away from me as possible, I got nothing but hurt and lies from it.


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: some

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 16 2003  
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You know, I'm sincerely sorry that you were hurt by institutional religion. I have too! Have I been hurt by other Christians? YES!

But what I focus on is not other people or institutions, but on what Christ did for me...and you. It's not about a "religion" but a Person and a personal relationship with Him.

Haven't you ever thought "there has to be more to life than this?"....that's the God-shaped vacuum that Pascal talked about. It is a space reserved for a connection with Christ!

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by gvs on: Oct 17 2003  
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No, I don't feel there is anything else.
I had many rights taken away be religions, but that is because I concluded that there is no god, it was a result of this, not a reason.


They cannot handle someone who doesn't believe, there is little or no place for atheists in my society, yet I am one.

I do not believe in god, christ, heaven or hell. I find science the better way.


The point is, you're never going to convince me to believe, as I will not succeed in getting you to wave your religion, which I don't intend.


I just stand by my original standpoint, that religion is a private thing, between you and your deity. I do not think it belongs out on public forums where people of all beliefs come.


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 18 2003  
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Two things:

1. This is an open forum and there are people like me who are looking for this.

2. You may be saying that Christianity is private, but Jesus Christ said it is not. He has commanded us to take it to the public.

That's it!

TIm

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: some thoughts

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 7 2003  
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**over a few words.**

I think you hit it dead on...!

I don't really think its about the art per se. I don't think it has ever been. Art is (by definition) not a science. Hence the appeal of a given work will vary from person to person.

I agree with the font issue though, as it was commented on by someone else. As I get time I'll work on it.

Thanks,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: some thoughts

 
 by simmons75 on: Oct 16 2003  
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simmons75simmons75
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Yes, I was living under the delusion that Linux users were by and large grownups.

Guess I was wrong.


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 .

 
 by Richardve on: Oct 7 2003  
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RichardveRichardve

That's it.

I'm not interested in visiting a holy religious whatever site.

I'm leaving this place.

Thanks to Frank for making this a great place initially, too bad a few of these fools had to do this.


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 Re: .

 
 by shanesemler on: Oct 7 2003  
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shanesemlershanesemler

I agree, I'm sick of this crap as well.


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 Re: Re: .

 
 by flamy on: Oct 7 2003  
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j'ŕ
ich auch
me too
mim demasiado

tommi
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 Very Openminded?

 
 by Chris308 on: Oct 7 2003  
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Chris308Chris308

Perhaps this site will be better off without you? I find it funny that those that profess tolerance seem to be the most intolerant. Tim's artwork is progressing very well. Further, I think he is performing a service to the community. I understand that this is a message that many do not want to hear. It makes you uncomfortable. The thought of being held accountable one day for our actions is very scarry. However, art(good & bad) provokes thought. From what I have seen here, Tim's work has done just that.

"Amen Paster, preach the word Paster...I accept the Bible as God's word Paster" -Individual on Sunday
"Vote for politicians that are anti-Bible and God's word" - Individual on Tuesday
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 Re: Very Openminded?

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 7 2003  
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"Tim's artwork is progressing very well."

Thanks, Chris...!

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: Very Openmin

 
 by avalon on: Oct 7 2003  
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some artist ideas if I may:

the shadow should be darker and have a feather on the edge, so it fades away. I can't tell, but the text should be anti-aliased. A good setting for the Gimp to do shadows is

x offset = 0
y offset = 0
blur = 4
color = black
transparency 80%

Just some ideas..

Scott
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 Re: Re: Re: Very Ope

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 7 2003  
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Thanks Avalon, I'll give it a try!

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Very Openminded?

 
 by avalon on: Oct 7 2003  
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While I have no particular problems with such a wallpaper here, I do think your comment about "The thought of being held accountable one day for our actions is very scarry" is precisely the attitude that turns people off. To each his own. Don't preach. Your way has as much a chance of being right as any other of the million ways that people believe. Preaching only alienates people, unless they already believe the same thing.

Scott
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 Re: Re: Very Openminded?

 
 by SynTruth on: Oct 7 2003  
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I have to second this opinion. To each their own: preach on your own place.

I rather secure in my own beliefs, thank you so very much, so "feeling scared" because of a wallpaper is a stretch. I think Tim gets the negative reaction he does because it *is* preachy and people just don't care for that, unless they ask for it. I go to church, I expect to be preached to, I got a website dedicated to Linux/KDE art, I don't expect it and it's just a tad irritating.

Personally, I'm not 100% convinced Tim is not a troll. (Sorry if you're not, Tim, but I've seen it happen before over and over again for years...nothing yanks chains faster than religion.)


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 Re: Re: Very Openmin

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 7 2003  
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First, in case you didn't notice my reply from the previous, thanks for the Gimp suggestion. I'll try it.

Secondly, please don't take this agressively...but let me quote you and give a response:

"The thought of being held accountable one day for our actions is very scarry" (sic) is precisely the attitude that turns people off."

True. However, would you say this if I were running through your town warning people that a hurricane was coming? (Let's assume you live in Florida). I don't think so. You'd say I was showing that I cared for them.

I've said it before; I'll say it again...and again till people understand...because I have examined sufficient evidence to come to this conclusion; the Scriptures are UNIQUELY accurate. They are reliable as history. They have foretold many events and have been accurate without fail. No, it's not that "the prophecies were written after the fact" because they date from before the event. We believe in the accuracy of Homer's Illiad but it only has 600 manuscripts. Yet the Scriptures have 20,000 or more...and they didn't vary over time.

I said that the Scriptures are UNIQUELY true. This flys in the face of "Tolerance". Well, Tough. "Tolerance" says there are a million ways to "get to god"...that is simply not the case.

Am I trolling? Well, I don't know what the intended meaning of the word as applied to me. All I know is I came here and noticed that there were people who were interested in this kind of work. So, I submit it. At the top of each submission, I tell everyone who my audience is. i don't go around flaming anyone. I don't go in other threads and say anything...unless it is positive...and even that is rare. The only entries are in my own threads, more often than not as replies to questions. That should be perfectly acceptable.

Others are free to choose to respond any way they wish; with taunting wallpapers, etc. But I leave them alone as the rabbit chases they are.

Again, because the written word is tricky and can sound different than intended, don't take this as "agressive" or "personal". And again, thanks for your techical suggestion for Gimp!

Blessings to you,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: Re: Very Ope

 
 by Soyburg on: Oct 8 2003  
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Alright Flanders. I'll try to make this real simple.

1.) The scriptures are not "UNIQUELY" accurate. They are a collection of stories (and yes, they have changed over time. Go to college for christ's sake...). If you choose to believe they are accurate to the last semicolon, well that's fine. Why do you have to convince everybody else that they are?

2.) Never trust a man who writes in uppercase. (Please keep your 50 million $ in your nigerian bank account).

3.) I don't live in Florida, but I believe there are hurricanes. However, I do not believe in any kind of afterlife. Afterlives aren't shown on the weather channel.


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Very

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 8 2003  
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The scriptures changed? No, the dead sea scrolls put the "transmission error problem" to rest.

No afterlife? Based on what? How do you know? Do you have all knowlege so that you can rule that out?

Thanks,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by Soyburg on: Oct 8 2003  
Score 50%
SoyburgSoyburg
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I would have liked to reply to your earlier post (Re, Re, Re....), but my version of Mozilla didn't show a "reply to this" anchor.

No afterlife? Based on what? How do you know? Do you have all knowlege so that you can rule that out?

It is not about ruling out. It is about proof. There is no proof of an afterlife. If you say there is one, show me the proof. If you say there is one, I don't have to disprove it. The burden of evidence is in your corner. That is how science works. If you say "The stone, if dropped, will move westwards, and not downwards." you will have to supply some proof. If you don't supply it - it ain't scientific. It will be belief or opinion.

And about the "geology professor who had a doctorate in Geology". I come from an oldfashioned country, where a doctor is not the same as a professor. A doctor can however become a professor if he habilitates himself at a university. Would you care to tell me what your studies were (what subject) and what college you attended for how long to what success? And how you came to believe that the mentioned doctor of geology was an evolutionist? And in what way you know that it was 4000 years ago that job realized the simplest of things, namely that water can be liquid and gaseous? (Which the Chinese discovered first, try and read the I-Ching sometime.) And why the bible is "scientifically accurate" when it comes to the water cycle (which it is not at all - if you had been in my class, you would have flunked it)?

Oh and by the way. Irreducable complexity is bullshit. There are all kinds of beings, starting from bacteria to algae, which can do quite well without blood clotting. Not to speak of the single-cell organisms. Since when did they have blood? Something must have gone by me. You seem to read books from one particular stream of thought only and seem to be immune to reason.

And what is Darwin's fish anyway? Never heared of it. Sorry. Did you just make this up? When I googled to learn about it, the best link I could find was to a bumper sticker.

How deep is your understanding of geology and palaeontology? Did you take just one course at some college, or why do you write like a simpleton? I studied geology for more than 6 years and I can not help but feel utterly bewildered by the way you write about things that are so utterly clear. The answers to your questions are in a library near you. I won't waste my breath explaining the things to you in 5 minutes that took me several years to grasp. Education (even at university level) is free in my country, but I understand that it is not in yours. Which is a pity. But don't blame me. Save some money.



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 8 2003  
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Soyburg:

I closed my previous post and then thought of this example:

Suppose you're in the U.S. and you are applying for some benefit which you know you qualify for. To get the benefit, the person behind the desk wants proof that you were born in the U.S. They ask you for your birth certificate. You cannot make them happy with "science". Test tubes won't work. They want Historical/legal evidence. So you give it to them. They don't look at it and just say "Well, that's just your opinion". They give it weight. They treat it as factual. That is the kind of evidence I can provide you. You give evidence but they also must exercise a certain amount of faith. In this case, there is overwhelming evidence to support faith in Christ. The only question is do you accept historical/legal evidence?

You do this every day! You go to a restaurant and ask for food. You don't do a chemical analysis of the food to make sure it's safe; you eat it out of trust that it is safe...at least in part due to the historical evidence that the food is safe to eat at that restaurant. When you step into a street, you have faith that you will be able to make it across without falling down and getting run over. Historically, you've made it across the street before! So, we all live by faith all the time. The only question is what do you place your faith in?

I think part of our problem is we are talking past each other. Again, Christianity is not based on test tubes...but evolution claims to be based on science; hence I ask for scientific answers.

Anyway, I await your answer to the previous message.

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Very

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 8 2003  
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Soyburg:

I have to answer here because the end of this thread has no replyto. May be because we've maxed the number of sublevels.

Yes, you missed my point about irreducable complexity. My point wasn't linking blood clotting to cells. I had a list of questions there.

My question about the cell has to do with "how could the cell have evolved? To even live, it must have all the parts".

Another question: Where did all the information come from for the DNA?

Another question: What evolved first...hunger? The ability to eat? The ability to digest? The ability for the stomach to resist digestive juices?

Another question: How did any living creature live to evolve until clotting evolved?

Do you REALLY believe that everything came from nothing all on it's own? What scientific evidence is this based on?...and evolution claims to be scientific...which I am not claiming for Christianity, which is based on Historical/legal evidence including eyewitness accounts.

My point is very simple: Anything that calls itself "theory" should be able to answer some very basic questions...and evolution is espoused as a "fact".

My allusion to the "Darwin Fish" has to do with the cartoon fish with feet. The implication is that there must be a fish fossil with feet. Where is it? If not, isn't this just a hoax? The Christian fish is based on a REAL fish somewhere.

The more silence I hear to these questions the more convinced I am that evolution is just what the early evolutionists (such as Epicurius) used it as; a religious faith to justify a preferred lifestyle or political agenda.

Richard Lewontin, a leading evolutionary Biochemist said the following. I would ask you to consider it:

‘We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.’

This quote comes from ‘Billions and billions of demons’ in The New York Review, dated January 9, 1997, page 31.

I have other quotes from other leading evolutionists if you'd like them...

Thanks,

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by Soyburg on: Oct 8 2003  
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1.) About Lewontin

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/quote_lewontin.html

2.) About evolution of cells

http://www.vexen.co.uk/life/evo.html

3.) About "Darwin Fish" (or is it fisheses?)

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional/part1a.html

Look at a transitional form which is still around:

http://www.aquarium-berlin.de/Artikel/Fischkunde/fische1.jpg

4.) Again, Christianity is not based on test tubes...but evolution claims to be based on science; hence I ask for scientific answers.

You got them, Flanders. I strongly urge you to read something besides the creationist books that you've been reading. You are ignoring what the majority (majority as in more than 99%) of scientists consider to be hard facts.



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 8 2003  
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Yes, I admit that's a funny looking fish; but that isn't evidence of evolution...just that it is an odd looking fish! Just shows that this is still around, whatever it is. Doesn't have to be transitional or in any Macroevolutional state. It's just a living fish!

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 8 2003  
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....about the Lewontin article...you've given me evidence that the Jehovah's witnesses (I am not one by any stretch of the imagination) misquoted him on other things. This doesn't deal with the quote I gave you which was by the New York Review...:)

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 8 2003  
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Yeah, "limb fragments" for the "darwin fish"...if you read through to the bottom. Of course, no way of knowing if those fragments all belong to the same thing. Kind of like the pigs tooth ending up in a "missing link" drawing for Nebraska man.

More later...

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by AresTheImpaler on: Oct 16 2003  
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AresTheImpalerAresTheImpal er

Jehova Witnesses are not really Christian, they don't preach 100% what it is in the scriptures. So they don't count



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 Re: Re: Re: Very Ope

 
 by Soyburg on: Oct 8 2003  
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Am I trolling? Well, I don't know what the intended meaning of the word as applied to me.

Excerpt from the "New Hacker's Dictionary"

"To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames."


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Very

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 8 2003  
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Thanks...that leaves me out!

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Very

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 8 2003  
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About the rest, thanks. And I will go over it. However, I want to ask for clarification...the "transitional" form...this live fish...I assume this represents something re:MACROevolution, not just variation within kind? If so, how do you know? And, what is it a transition from and to...and again, how do you know?

Tnanks, even though you do get my name wrong! :)

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Very

 
 by Soyburg on: Oct 8 2003  
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However, I want to ask for clarification...the "transitional" form...this live fish...I assume this represents something re:MACROevolution, not just variation within kind? If so, how do you know? And, what is it a transition from and to...and again, how do you know?

I won't answer any of your questions. Go to the faq at www.talkorigins.org and read it. If you have any questions after that, then I can't help you.

There is a saying about horses and leading them to water. I believe the horse has to decide for itself, wether it is thirsty.



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 9 2003  
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That's ok...you haven't begun to answer them...No Baconian scientific method, just pictures of a live fish and a story about fossil fragments. No Observation, testing, etc. regarding cell "evolution". but somehow we proclaim it as "fact" per Lewontin. No, you have a theory...and you are taking it by faith! And this is being tought as FACT???

Thanks anyway, and take care...

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)

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 Re: .

 
 by fault on: Oct 8 2003  
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faultfault

I'm not a christian, but at I pride myself that I'm not a close-minded bigot like you.

tolerance is good.. of everything.


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 Re: Re: .

 
 by timbrown527 on: Oct 8 2003  
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Hey! I just checked your submissions and found out you did the Megashira skin for Noatun. I use it! Good work!

Tim

Christ is my LIFE...
The rest is just trumpets...(oh, and Linux!)
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