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Not In My Name openDesktop.org


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Not In My Name

KDE Wallpaper 1024x768

Score 43%

bongo

Link: http:// Downloads: 600	Submitted: Feb 11 2003 Updated: Feb 12 2003
Description: A topical wallpaper - if you want to squeeze a little government propaganda out of your ambient environment and insert a different perspective, this is for you. It's supposed to look stark, like a protest banner. There's been some negative feedback about its artistic merit so I'll be trying some improvements shortly. The gist is "there's a reason for this war - the survival of the Corporate Industrial-Military complex and the source of its fear - corrupt Christian fundamentalists whose fear mongering poisons the U.S. government." For my fav. KDE only. --- Updated to leave room for icons ---

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Political forum

by karlandtanya on: Feb 11 2003

Score 50%

karlandtanya
UFP
Home

kdelook.org = political forum
Or not?

Yeah, I know, you used the three parallel bars (is defined as) in your statement. Your presumption aside, if you define these symbols as you have, the rest of your argument is essentially a tautology. And a sloppy one.

What's with the inflamatory symobls, anyhow? All you're doing is painting objectors as reactionary fringe characters.

Or maybe that's your intent.

At any rate, this hardly qualifies as "art", and certainly not something that prompts sharing as "wallpaper".

Your political statement (against war, or caricaturing objectors to war), and your right to make it are legitimate.

Just please find somewhere else to do it.

Reply to this

..where isn't?

by bongo on: Feb 11 2003

Score 50%

bongo

Your message contains three points, all of which I question.

1) FUNCTION : It really is a wallpaper. I happen to like political and topical wallpapers, and obviously so do many other people. Simple.

2) MESSAGE : I'm sorry that you find the wallpaper tacky, offensive, ridiculous, and incompetant... but in its defense (in reverse order) the three bars signify 'equivalence' (at least in most scientific symbolic ontologies). The symbols and their relationship (signifying the militaristic expansionism of Rome, the ubiquitous B52 which was [for example] was used by Nixon to illegally massacre over 300,000 Cambodian civilians in just a few weeks, and that of the Swastika - belonging to a nation that collectively lost its mind) have not been chosen without thought and care, their choice is the product of much research. The textual background is a tiny snippet culled from a fully referenced 16 page pamphlet which will soon be a short film. Any argument against the strength of the argument would be better directed against its hypotheses and evidence rather that that in the wallpaper - which is not a political document and thus is one in which the burden of proof is relatively insignificant (look up a few facts yourself, you'll find nothing there that isn't from solid sources).

AESTHETICS : It is deliberately stark. This is an artistic choice. Think of it as black spray paint on a banner. I don't pretend that I'm Leonardo Da Vinci, but I have made an effort to exercise my skills. Besides, the only true measure of whether this is the correct place for the wallpaper or not is the quantity of downloads it recieves. It has been well received generally.

Thanks for your comment though, I just hope you understand that I'm not being facile, simplistic, or provocative. These are very frightening time, and I am fearful for the loss of many more innocent lives - and the destruction of American democracy.

It is my opinion that the forces generating this dynamic, the true sources of terror, lie within our domain of action. We are all shrouded in ceaseless propaganda and 10% of the story, this wallpaper lets people bring a different angle into their ambient environment.

Regards

B

Reply to this

I don't think ...

by TRoessler on: Feb 11 2003

Score 50%

TRoessler

... that such hard words help in solving such a conflict.
Though it may not be completely untrue, insulting nations and religions will not do any good but will - just as this war - cause the opposite of what it was meat to achive ...

Reply to this

hard words

by bongo on: Feb 11 2003

Score 50%

bongo

I understand your concern, but when the administration refuse to listen to the U.N., its own people, the people of Europe, and the governments of Germany, France and Belgium - who all know and have lived through precisely the nightmare we are about to enter - what room is there for diplomacy.
Very few people understand the true nature of the American dynamic - how great the struggle has always been among those who wish for peace, democracy and genuine freedoms [such as the freedom from fear and intimidation], and those whose interests lie in dominion, mistruth and war.
These are not words against those elements of society, for they have no interest in listening - those who dream of empire are always aware of what they do but see nothing other than the glory. The words are for those who retain a shread of humanity, to expose the harsh reality against which we must struggle.

"Liberty has never come from government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it." Woodrow T. Wilson - 28th President of the U.S.

B

Reply to this

nor in mine, but...

by ianmunck on: Feb 11 2003

Score 50%

ianmunck

I really have to disagree with you on one point. You say flat out "Very few people understand the true nature of the American dynamic..." as much as I don't want to turn this thread into a political debate, I suppose it already is to some extent, I have to ask this: who are you to say you understand the true nature of the "American dynamic" and others do not? I do not believe in this soon-to-be-if-not-already-war at all, but comments such as that only serve to expose the "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality all too many people have. All I'm saying is that this post can be considered insulting. I'm also not saying you don't have the right to post this, just try to not get so upset when others disagree with you since you are expressing your right to disagree.

Just my 2 cents.

-Ian

Reply to this

two cents

by bongo on: Feb 12 2003

Score 50%

bongo

Thanks for the comment Ian. First, I wouldn't say I'm upset by others remarks. I have only responded to them in order to correct what I believe are misunderstandings - and they are fairly inevitable given that nobody here knows me - so 80% of first impressions are shaped by social prejudices... and you can probably see where that's going so I won't bother saying it.

Reading back I see what you mean vis. "the american dynamic", but again, as George W. Bush has said "you misunderestimated me" :-D The 'american dynamic' is by its nature the ebbs, flow, thrusts, resurgences, and interplay of dominant forces within the whole of American cultural organization. Of course I do not 'know' or 'think' I am speaking the absolute truth (but then, you don't know me so how would you have known that :) , however, the large trends shaping American society are quite visible and accessible - there is a long history of debate and analysis regarding their nature - and of course the wider historical patterns of behaviour seen in the birth, growth, and demise of large nations/empires. Why do I have faith in certain viewpoints? Because I try to use a degree of rationality - namely, I pose a hypothetical truth and try to find evidence for and against. Responses that people give you are part of that process, they are assaults on a position. It is important to question reality, to build your own opinions - but it is equally important not to SET your opinions. I have just made a poster that says nothing remarkable to me and most of the people I know, but the fact that it has caused a bit of a stir is interesting. Why is it?

Reply to this

We have cents ;-)

by TRoessler on: Feb 12 2003

Score 50%

TRoessler

Hi bongo!
I just wanted to express that the one and only way to utter serious concerns in this case is by presenting facts (mostly differing from those who are presented in papers and TV) that speak for themleves (and I think there are quite a few).
Living in Germany, I get to know day by day how hard it is - especially for our government - to keep this position we chose (and which I consider to be correct) when not only members of the US-government and presidents of most other european states are calling you a "problem" (and many things that are much worde), but when in your own country, the opposition-partys tells that it is time to throw down this government. :-(
Anyway ... we'll see what happens ... and those who will not have a share in what happens hopefully won't have a share in what results from it.

"I used to trust the media to tell me the truth"
- Queensryche, Operation Mindcrime

Reply to this

I have to agree, but

by sarahcollber on: Feb 11 2003

Score 50%

sarahcollber

Most of what is written on the wallpaper is true. But I have to agree that kdelook.org is not the best place to post things like this.
(Maybe it is not safe to publish anything like this on the web , ever hear of Echelon...) :-)

I'm curious about the nationality of the creator of this wallpaper. Is he/she american ?
What do americans think of the fact that this war is not good for what other people around the world think of americans ?

Reply to this

From an American...

by Doches on: Feb 11 2003

Score 50%

Doches
Home

I agree totally that this is not a political forum (if anyone knows any really good ones, let me know), but I feel obligated to stand up on my own soap-box for a minute.
(A) This is a tacky wallpaper (better presentation of this info would make it much more impressive)
(B) I am American, though I am ashamed at the unabashed nationalism, brinkmanship, and general pre-WWI "diplomacy" we are presently conducting, and don't think that KDE (or Linux in general) should be concerned with the activities of nations (cough RedHat cough); Aren't we above that?

"Revolution" "Kennedy" "Iraq" "Al-Qaeda" "Anarchist's Cookbook" "C-4 cookbook" "Bush Travel Schedule"

Reply to this

from a world citizen

by bongo on: Feb 11 2003

Score 50%

bongo

There are many ways to present the same information, this is one. As I have said at the top, the style of the artwork is deliberate. I'm sorry you don't like it, but then, that subjectivity for you.

I totally agree with your political sentiments, and yes, Americans should be above it... but again, the actions of America are not. Ask yourself why that is.

Good political forums? Your local pub. Some good books? "The New Rulers of the World" John Pilger [respectable]
"Rogue State" William Blum [not such a respectable writing style but well referenced and researched]
and perhaps "The Free World Colossus" by Horrowitz, although I doubt you'll be able to find it anywhere :(

Actually, a very good political website is www.zmag.org and the British www.schnews.org.uk

Reply to this

...rebuttal/agree...

by Doches on: Feb 12 2003

Score 50%

Doches
Home

i see your point about your deliberate style -- and apologize for my rudeness; I just have a failing for super-overdone, photoshopped pics. Anyway, I do love the text, may take it and use it in something of my own (If that's ok), I actually did a splash-screen a few months ago (right after the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act passed...) that put a nazi-fascist spin on an american flag, but never uploaded it because it seemed un-KDEish.

I didn't mean that Americans should be above the actions of the Bush-regime; on the contrary, they should be out there marching against blood-for-oil and the growing American theocracy. I meant the os/fs community, as a community, has no place in this debate.

Oh, thx on the books, will look, but odds are bad in this part of the "bible belt"; I do, however, read zmag.

btw, i'm 17, in texas, so the nearest "local pub" is across the ocean, and I'm not exactly a welcome customer. ;)

Reply to this

political forums

by secretmethod70 on: Feb 12 2003

Score 50%

secretmethod 70

talk politics with no flame wars: www.tfproject.org

Aside for that, I agree this is not the place for political activism.

And the "wallpaper" functions better as a poster than a wallpaper. It's too busy (mostly the words) to be used as a wallpaper.

Reply to this

Above comments

by Doches on: Feb 11 2003

Score 50%

Doches
Home

Just to confuse Echelon... ;)

Reply to this

An American Replies

by Brandybuck on: Feb 12 2003

Score 50%

Brandybuck
ICS
Home

War should always be a last resort, but sometimes the last resort is necessary. A less patient country would have sent troops in a year ago. I think our reluctance is admirable. Iraq could stop this process in five minutes by simply complying with the treaties they have signed.

Reply to this

a note

by bongo on: Feb 12 2003

Score 50%

bongo

I really, truly, don't want to turn this into a political thread, but I want to answer this.

Put simply, the war has never stopped. After Kuwait [when Bush1 had convinced the Kurds to rise up and rebel (AGAIN, remember iran-iraq) and the U.S. government shafted them for a second time by lifting the iraq-wide no-fly zone so Saddam could airlift troops and crush the rebellion] American began its twelve year siege. There has been non-stop bombing for over a decade! HEAVY bombing! At the same time the U.K./U.S. airforces regularly withdraw their patrols to allow the Turks to bomb the fuck out of the Kurds - this is all well documented stuff. Remember, we're going in there to liberate the Kurds! Bollox.

The reason the ground invasion is happening now is that Bush1's cabinet are back in power and there are plenty of scandals/widespread corruption to hide.

Personally, I think it would be a very bad idea for any country to hand over its WMD given the recent history of the U.S. to dominate and invade countries that can't adequately defend themselves - but that's besides the point. In reality the Iraqis are saying that they have nothing left after 12 years of constant bombardment and economic sanctions, the weapons inspectors are saying that they can't find anything significant, the U.S./U.K. dossiers are absolutely LAUGHABLE considering they've had 12 years to get evidence (in the U.K. case the dossier which Powell commended so highly at the U.N. was a cut-and-paste job from a twelve year old PhD thesis!!!), you can't make this shit up. Just because you're told they're a massive threat doesn't make it true, at all. It's like when Nixon had another go at pushing for an invasion of Cube and tried to get the Mexican president onside at a public rally. The Mexican president declined saying that "he wouldn't be responsible for the death of 40,000 mexicans who would die laughing".

All the hard shit they did have was U.S./U.K. supplied (which is why the permanent members of the security council refused to release the original Iraqi declaration until they had time to censor it for incriminating evidence). Donald Rumsfeld himself is publicly quoted endorsing the use of Chemical weapons against the Iranians (who had rebelled against the CIA installed Shah, don't forget - also don't forget that at the same time as arming Iraq PointDexter was also arming Iran in the bizarre hope that maybe they'd wipe each other out?!?!?).

At the same time Israel has more nukes than the U.K., biological and chemical weapons, a HUGE military industry, has invaded its neighbour's territory on many occasions, is illegally occupying the West Bank and the Gaza Strip after STARTING the '67 war, and has more U.N. resolutions against it (I believe, I'll have to check that) than any other country in the world. But America still supports it by between $3B - $10B a year as it is a very nice terrorist threat against those evil arabs.

Try to escape the "us and them" bubble of fear and hatred and take a look at things in a more objective light for just a second - based on the facts of the matter and the respective nations real history of violence.

(I mentioned the kurds at the beginning btw to point out that the 'murderous saddam' (who's killed a fuck of a lot less than the CIA and U.S. military have just this decade) has been suppressing a people who have been agitated and pushed to armed confrontation by the CIA before being abandoned twice. [Also worth mentioning that the Kurds were the first people in the world to be indiscriminately bombed from the air, by the British]. What steps do you think the U.S. would take if a foreign power convinced Utah to begin an armed insurgency? When you only have 10% of the facts people can paint any picture they like and it's difficult for you to see it as a forgery. Get yourself educated.

Reply to this

yes...

by Doches on: Feb 20 2003

Score 50%

Doches
Home

i rather think I like you, bongo...

Reply to this

Makes a change

by anonymous on: Feb 11 2003

Score 50%

inactive user

Ok ok ok. So political content isn't the norm, and as far as wallpaper goes, the desktop icons can kind of get in the way...

But I say BRAVO. Nice to see that at least someone is trying to challenge our grey matter. Admittedly, I have seen most of this information before, but it is interesting to see a concise list of 'interferences'.

However, I disagree with the first comment for two reasons;

a. The three lines, (here in England), mean 'equivalent'. OK, a pedantic point, but it changes the argument.

b. As history shows, the Romans continually used the threat of war, (real, or frequently, imagined), as an excuse to invasion/intervention. More often than not, commercial interests were closest to the heart of the problem. Admittedly, the Nazis did not use these arguments themselves, but the arrangement of the logos suggests that the US between the two; imitating the Roman model, whilst creating the terror & oppression seen under the Third Reich. So it isn't a simple matter of sticking nasty logos together. (Hell, I only know what SPQR stands from because I read 'Asterix' as a child). I'm sure there are other interpretations of the logos, but the think I like the most about this wallpaper is that the viewer isn't spoonfed; something that always gets right on my...

Another plus is that it is factual, (although the references are all over the shop). It's not an insensible demand to kill Christians or Americans.

I think it fair to point out that berating the fundamentalist Christians in control of the US govenment doesn't have any reflection upon those of us that can actually USE our brains, and therefore have no relation to the current US government. So I wasn't offended.

This is obviously turning into a rant. I think I'd better have a lie down! :)

Reply to this

Nice one

by marm on: Feb 12 2003

Score 50%

marm

Like it or loathe it, we are all political creatures, we all have our own viewpoints on the world and some are not afraid to express their viewpoints.

Normally I wouldn't expect political issues to spill over into a place like kde-look.org - usually political commentaries are better kept in an appropriate forum - but this is such an important and emotive issue for so many people that I'm not surprised it has happened here. I'd rather not see kde-look.org turn into a political bitchfight though, so let's keep it to just this one subject and let's keep it polite and thoughtful, eh?

Personally I'm with the wallpaper on this one, but if those who are pro-war want to do their own pro-war wallpaper and put it up on kde-look.org... let them. That's part of what the internet is about, isn't it, empowering the individual?

I bet there's some jerk who will just write a down-voting bot for it though... :(

Reply to this

Thank you

by holme on: Feb 12 2003

Score 50%

holme
Home

Thank you thank you thank you.
Just what i need.
But it is too small.
Could you make one in 1280 x 1024

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Not In My Name

KDE Wallpaper 1024x768

Political forum

..where isn't?

I don't think ...

... that such hard words help in solving such a conflict. Though it may not be completely untrue, insulting nations and religions will not do any good but will - just as this war - cause the opposite of what it was meat to achive ...

hard words

nor in mine, but...

two cents

We have cents ;-)

I have to agree, but

From an American...

from a world citizen

...rebuttal/agree...

political forums

talk politics with no flame wars: www.tfproject.org Aside for that, I agree this is not the place for political activism. And the "wallpaper" functions better as a poster than a wallpaper. It's too busy (mostly the words) to be used as a wallpaper.

Above comments

Just to confuse Echelon... ;)

An American Replies

War should always be a last resort, but sometimes the last resort is necessary. A less patient country would have sent troops in a year ago. I think our reluctance is admirable. Iraq could stop this process in five minutes by simply complying with the treaties they have signed.

a note

yes...

i rather think I like you, bongo...

Makes a change

Nice one

Thank you

Thank you thank you thank you. Just what i need. But it is too small. Could you make one in 1280 x 1024

... that such hard words help in solving such a conflict.
Though it may not be completely untrue, insulting nations and religions will not do any good but will - just as this war - cause the opposite of what it was meat to achive ...

talk politics with no flame wars: www.tfproject.org

Aside for that, I agree this is not the place for political activism.

And the "wallpaper" functions better as a poster than a wallpaper. It's too busy (mostly the words) to be used as a wallpaper.

Thank you thank you thank you.
Just what i need.
But it is too small.
Could you make one in 1280 x 1024