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Merge Taskbar & Quicklauch & System Tray

  

KDE4 Brainstorm

Score 59%
takanowakatakanowaka
Merge Taskbar & Quicklauch & System Tray
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Downloads:  441
Submitted:  Apr 10 2009
Updated:  Apr 14 2009

Description:

as I found out this is not a new idea and was discussed in several posts..

the reason for this: why there are 3 places where should I look when I want to work with same application?
for example Amarok
1. launch it with quicklaunch
2. min/restore window in task bar
3. operate with it in system tray

with merging functionality of all 3 components and active preview of windows I think this could be done in 1 place

my original post: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=99739&forumpage=23




License: GPL
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 Nice

 
 by minatolf on: Apr 10 2009  
Score 50%
minatolfminatolf

I tottally agree. It's somewhat dumb to show 3 times the same icon in the taskbar (the same thing happens with the default KDM theme, it shows 3 times the name of the default user). I believe this could already be done with the Stasks plasmoid, at least the quicklaunch part.


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 Re: Nice

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 10 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

as far as I know it won't be done by Stasks/Fancytasks (you can check my original post) :(


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 Re: Re: Nice

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 10 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

ehm.. I forgot to add.. the code for active preview is written for Fancytasks and may be adopted by Stasks as well
at least this is good news ;)


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 Bad idea

 
 by AngelBlue01 on: Apr 11 2009  
Score 50%
AngelBlue01AngelBlue01
IT Support Technician at CCI

How can you tell which is which?


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 Re: Bad idea

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 11 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

that's the whole point of this - there should be no difference.. it should be about working with application and not with quicklaunch/taskbar/system tray

the apps in taskbar should just change status - from quicklaunch to min/restore window or to system tray and vica versa (to put it simple 1 icon for 1 app no matter what ;) )

and as you can see on my screenhot quicklaunch icons have little shortcut icon there and I think something similar could be done for those who'd prefer it ;)


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 Nice Wallpaper

 
 by Martin-Hasenpflug on: Apr 11 2009  
Score 50%
Martin-HasenpflugMartin-Hasen pflug
Home

Where can i download it?


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 Re: Nice Wallpaper

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 11 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Wilkolak?content=64304


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 Only launchres + tasks

 
 by Emdek on: Apr 13 2009  
Score 50%
EmdekEmdek
Home

Ok, so from developer point of view now. ;-)
Having possibility to have launchers and tasks in one place has sense and is possible to do without bigger problems (I know, because I've did it already in Fancy Tasks ;-)).
But adding systray to them adds more problems and is not possible to do this in nice way before new specification will be adopted also by non KDE applications.
Without that it is not possible to get nice, scalable icons for entries (now they are kind of window, embedded in applet) and there are many other problems.
Additionally you can get two icons that looks the same and has the same name, one for task and one for systray.
This also adds bigger complexity in sorting icons and libtaskmanager supports only tasks (so problems starts already when adding support for launchers).
And finally, you can always disable systray or put it's applet next to task manager.


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 Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 13 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

Hey Emdek ;) the main reason why I posted it here is to check what will be the reaction of other users and to give KDE devs something to think about (and I was bored too ;) ) but as you can see not many of them are interested/think it's good idea.. :/

And to your points:
"you can get two icons that looks the same"
I thought that this would solve grouping and some kind of hack that would check if the app is also in systray/quicklaunch and it would remove the duplicity (this is just a non-coder view)
"you can always disable systray"
there are some handy things which I wanna keep ;) like kopete message animation, akregator/kmail nr. of new items, keyboard switcher etc.

And finally: I'll check Fancytasks then ;) the only reason I'm not using them is that I miss something like "Classic view without animation" that would look like Stasks; anyway thanks and keep up good work ;)


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 Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 13 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

P.S.: ..stupid reason - I know ;)


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 Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by Emdek on: Apr 13 2009  
Score 50%
EmdekEmdek
Home

We could identify which systray entry belongs to task (should be possible and reliably - there will be probably possibility to get list of windows associated to systray entry, so we could compare them with windows belonging to task), but if we merge both icons there are problems what to do for example when left clicking on icon (which item should handle it, task or systray entry?) or which menu should be shown when using right click (from task or from systray entry?).
The problem is worse when he have entry with task, launcher and systray entry.

This is not easy to do right.

Maybe someone could do some research in this topic, for example try to create test applet using existing ones and adding this feature (when specification will be finalized).

> And finally: I'll check Fancytasks then ;) the only reason I'm not using them is that I miss something like "Classic view without animation" that would look like Stasks; anyway thanks and keep up good work ;)

You can set move animation to "None" (but without expanding and light effects).


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 Re: Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 13 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

I think that creating some kind of priority policy for showing icon/context menu would help (systray - high; task - medium; quicklaunch - low). And the icon/context menu of the function (ql/tb/st) with the highest priority would show up. I think this would be ok for all progs.. but I might be horribly wrong ;) so as you say this might require more testing..

yeah.. I know.. but the icons are too big and I'm loosing my pretty plasma theme for tasks.. but to tell the truth now I'm using Stasks alongside with Fancytasks ;) maybe I'll get used to it..


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by Emdek on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
EmdekEmdek
Home

I'm not sure if this should be done in this way, because we then have no access to task menu and actions if it has systray entry, and this is plain wrong. So probably these icons shouldn't be merged into one, only showing them in the same applet maybe.

Maybe I'll help later Marcin with work on STasks, to add launchers support etc. (we already share some code).
By the way, this was his idea to start work on new task manager applet, but he wanted something more like Windows 7 and I like more idea of MacOS X like dock, so we started two different applets.
And at beginning I've told him that I'll probably not change default manager on my desktop to my applet (because I like to see entry name to faster find needed task) but now I'm using it daily and got used to it (no more four rows and five columns of task entries). ;-)


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

I'm aware of this but:
1. if you right click on the preview you get task context menu - I'm not sure if it's connected with what is shown as icon context menu. But this can be the way - if you don't want to loose access to task menu (hopefully) you can make it available through preview
2. it is really necessary to have access to task menu? I mean how many times did you really use it?

yeah I can see the different philosophy when I look at them ;) I'm more in Win7 style.. I was trying AWN dock because it looked so wonderful but after 2-3 days I've got sick of the flashy animations ;)
I hear you man.. I've never used grouping before and I hated it.. but now with Stasks/Fancytasks I can't imagine something else ;)


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by Emdek on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
EmdekEmdek
Home

1. Right, but with standard tool tips this could be harder to do (I've started discussion on Plasma mailing list about extending tool tips API, including passing of clicks) and there is case of tool tip without preview (no Compositing or something like that).

2. I'm using it quite often. ;-)
And there is still problem when you for example want to activate or minimize window by left click on entry. Most of systray applications will show or fully hide (won't be shown in task manager) window but this behavior is inconsistent, different applications could behave different.

Anyway, you can read here about new systray specification:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/04/system-trays.html
This could take years to get rid off last remains of current solution, and this is needed before we will start really thinking about this. ;-)

And yes, I also think that MacOS X dock was designed mostly to look good (and it does it very good I think) but classic task manager is often more useful. And Windows 7 task bar is probably something in the middle.
It's good that we have choice. ;-)



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by mck182 on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
mck182mck182
KDE Telepathy

Just to add a point to your discussion, the menus could also merge, so when right clicking on the icon, there would be one menu with entries like:

Systray >
Task >
Launcher >
...others...

That way you wouldn't loose neither one menu ;)

Proud Fedora user, sad AMD/ATI user

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by Emdek on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
EmdekEmdek
Home

Yes, menu for launcher could be added as sub menu (I'm using this strategy in Fancy Tasks).
But merging systray menu with others could be impossible if it won't be available as object that we could reuse and merge with others...



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

1. good to hear that ;) hmm.. looks like from my side (non-coder,linux noob etc) is done everything that could be done ;)
2. I almost never.. ok.. sometimes for closing windows :)

hmm.. I don't like the idea of waiting few years :D
maybe enabling it as experimental function would create the possibility for some testing and maybe even push other devs to start using new systray specs earlier..

yeah.. I saw that post earlier today but I didn't understand anything except the title ;)

agreed.. this is why I like Linux even with other shortcomings



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by Emdek on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
EmdekEmdek
Home

We could use it starting from 4.3 (or 4.4) but this would work only for (most of) KDE applications, this could be enough for most of users, but not for all...



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

tough decision.. but it's your decision ;) all I can do is just wait ;)



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Only launchres + tasks

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

ehm.. to be honest.. according to the score of this idea I wouldn't recommend it to add before polishing everything else ;) looks like people are happy the way it is and can get only pissed off with some regression..



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 mm

 
 by Israphel on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
IsraphelIsraphel
ABCiencia
Home

It's weird, I really can't understand it without a kind of screenplay.

Btw, which wallpaper is that?


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 Re: mm

 
 by takanowaka on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
takanowakatakanowaka

well.. I can't help you with that - I have no skills to make an animation or video ;)
You can imagine that you're clicking on the same icon in taskbar and either it runs an application or min/restore the windows when application is already running. And on hover you see application name (when it's not running) and preview (when it's running).

wallpaper - see download section I've added the link there


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 nice

 
 by Markec on: Apr 14 2009  
Score 50%
MarkecMarkec


I'd love to have in kde4.3


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