|  | | Re: Re: Re: urg
Jul 1 2006 on content Hammer n Sickle |
Yes, you can, you can also blow a fart in elevator. It is not a problem what you can do but what is good and what is evil. Just think about it. If you are really conservative person, I think you will know what you should do. |
| | | Re: Re: Re: urg
Jul 1 2006 on content Hammer n Sickle |
People who were voting for Hitler also did not think that he will make war and concentration camps, people who supported communist in Russia (or everywhere) also probably did not think that they will form most bloody system system. But everywhere commies got a rule, they used terror and crimes. |
| | | Re: urg
Jul 1 2006 on content Hammer n Sickle |
Ok, so if you see guys with swasticas on flags you think they are probably spanish monks, when you see guys with hammer and sickle on their flags, you think they are.... ?
And could you tell us what was original title of theme from which you have taken wallpaper?
Please, do not pretend that you don't understand the problem. OK, you just wanted to make a joke, but it was not good idea... just remove wallpaper and all will be OK. |
| | | NO!
Jun 30 2006 on content Hammer n Sickle |
Maybe you don't know but your 'art' is the symbol of totalitary system responsable for death of at least dozens millions of people. Millions of those who survived were imprisoned in camps and prisons, tortured, lost their health and properties. Read abott artifical famine on Ukraine when millions of men, woman children and old peoples died from hunger, about GULAGs and other achievements of communism.
Probably it is not your intention but you just follow communist propaganda and help them to show communism as "not so bad thing, rather fun than terrible". |
| | | Re: funny guy....
Jan 2 2006 on content Communist Victory |
Responsibility is possible when you have choice. What choice had people whos country was invaded by other armies that brought new goverments that was established by force and crimes, and nobody asked these people if they want to live in that system or not?
Let's imagine that one day someone burns your home, murder your familly, steal all your money, and imprison you during several years (you lost your job and friends). Later he lets you free and says: "Sorry, don't complain, you cannot blame anybody, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for your fate". |
| | | Re: WHO OPPOSED STAL
Jan 2 2006 on content Communist Victory |
Who resisted Red Army? First, of course all other than bolshevics forces in Russia, including whites, Makhno, Petlura, greens, mienshevics, normal workers, peasants, patriots etc, etc, etc, many, many of Russian people and members of other nations included in russian empire. Communists wanted to have total control, so everybody, doesn't matter if socialist, anarchist or capitalists was enemy for them. But opposition in Russia was destroyed. Bolshevics wanted widesperad their revolution (and terror) in all Europe and later in all world. Fortunatelly, they were stopped by Poles (that was capitalist country) in 1920. (BTW: When Makhno was fighting at rule was Lenin not Stalin.)
It is really difficult to understand from your post how anarchists and socialists were fighting against Stalin when they were fighting against Franco (and Hitler who supported Franco). Hitler and Stalin were not in the alliance yet. They were allied since 1939.
But... it is a piece of true in that... Many people, including socialists and anarchists were going to Spain to fight against Franco, but also Stalin supported republicans, and sent some support including NKVD officers (so really COMMUNISTS). Controlling Communistic Party of Spain they tried to overtake total rule in the Spain. Again, they were fighting with offcial enemies, but also repressed trockists, anarchists and other people who were in theory allied, but by communists treated as enemies. During that war many spanish people, including several thousants of children, were evacuated to USSR. Try to find what was their later fate. Many of them were later arrested, tortured (one of spanish teacher was tortured during 2 years (!!!), and finally she was murdered). 40% of 5000 evacuated spanish children died.
Many of socialists (and anarchists etc, etc) who were fighting in Spain against Franco, when saw communistic methods, opened their eyes (and minds). One of them was George Orwell who, inspired by communistic methods and behaviour, later wrote "Animal Farm" and "1984".
After the WWII soviet army that "liberated" several countries in East/Central Europe, was resisted by different forces who were figting for independancy of these countries. Later... read about uprising in Hungary (1956), about Prague in 1968, about Solidarity in Poland (1980/81) and finally fall of communists goverments since 1989. People of different point of views, some of socialists, anarchists but also capitalists, liberals, catholics, protestants etc... were against communists.
And what is also, and maybe most important, during several dozens of years after WWII, soviet army was stopped mainly by USA. It is difficult to call Americans as socialists or anarchists, don't you think?. Also soviet invaders were bitten in Afghanistan (who were also rather not socialists or anarchsts). Finally, SU lost cold war and soviet system was bancrupted.
But... in many countries there were and are still are many peoples who defends communism and communists. Lenin (some sources claims that Stalin) called them "usefull idiots" (try to guess why?). When Stalin lived they defended him and his system (eg GB Shaw), later, some of them cut off from Stalin but still were and are talking about "good communism". Fortunatelly also many, also socialists, when saw the truth, changed their point of view and stopped to glorify one of the most criminal system in history and... supported the falldown of system created by communists.
And finally... to all who wants glorify or defend communism and communists (if I understand you, you don't want to do it). Please, read some books about that subject, at least try to find some information in internet before you will put your effort to defend people and ideology who is responsible for death of such many millions of people, abd before you advise somebody to "open his mind". It is not funny thing. Many, many people suffered, died, were tortured, imprisoned... it is not funny neither for them, nor for their families. If you want to wear t-shirt with red star, try to imagine that you are Jew and you see someone with swastika. Try to imagine that you see a computer with GDM theme containing nazi symbols.
That's all from me. |
| | | too late...
Dec 18 2005 on content Communist Victory |
It is 100 000 000 millions of victims and almost 100 years too late to say about "good communism".
Communists are right in one point. When they say that in no country "true communism" was established. But.... why? In many countries, including the biggest and most rich in natural resouces country (Russia), and most populated country (China), in the world, communists reached the rule. They had power, possibilities, and time. So, why they did not established that "ideal system"? Why they did not make people free, rich and safe?
You tell that communism is not a danger but it is "hope for a future without wars and poors". So, if it is true, why when communists tried to establish that system it was resulted by artrocities, genocides, crimes, powerty and backwarding? There was no peace but wars. Not freedom, but bloody regimes. Let's compare East and West Europe, North and South Europe, China and Taiwan. Results of communistic work are clearly visible. WHY it happened?
If communists are right, why communistic governments couldn't exists without censorship, monopoly in media, and imprisoning oposionists in prisons and camps (or just murdering them)?
If communistic ideology, that cost at least 100 000 000 of victims (much more that two world wars!) is not dangerous, what is dangerous in this world? I know that one of greatests communistic idols said: "death of one person is tragedy, death of million of people is just statistics", but for normal people it is ja great genocide. Maybe they does not use their brains and cannot uderstand ideas of great genius?
If communism is just simple economic theory, why it does not work, give me just one example where it just works "correctly". Where it gave to people what it promised to give?
If Mao and Stalin were not communists, who was "true communists"? Why communists in all world were supporting Stalin, even when he was in alliance with Hitler, when he invaded and occupied other countries also when suppported nazi invasions in Europe? And what about Lenin, also responsable for many artrocities?
Communists cannot answer difficult (?) questions, instead they repeat that it is "imperialistic propaganda", as you can see in comments to that theme. It is not suprising. Communists always, and everywhere, built their "ideal system" on lies, so they cannot accept truth. But, unfortunatelly, it is not propaganda, mass graves really exists, many people lost their life in communistic camps, prisons, during tortures, died due forced famines, civil wars... much more last their freedom, health and properties. And many, many people still remember that. It is the cause why "explaining these simple economic theory to people living in those places is difficult". They just know what it is worth.
In XX century two criminal ideologies: communism and nazism caused one world war, more less wars and resulted in many millions of victims. Many nazists were on trials (eg. in Nurenberg) and punished. But only few of communists, however responsable for more victims than nazis, payed for their crimes. We couldn't see something like Nurenberg trial for communists. Most of people know what was Auschwitz, but much less may call at least one name of soviet camp. Everybody heard what was holocaust, but how many people know that few years before at least comparable number of people died in Ukraine during forced famine caused by communists? Germans cut off from nazi past, but in some communistic countries, and even in some of the countries where if officially communism was finished (like in Russia), governments try to keep in secret terrible past, and from time to time glorify communistic "achievements" and even bandits (like Stalin). Maybe it is one of the causes why still communists may find such many naive people that believe in their lies about "good communism".
It is strange, but even now, when more and more facts are commonly known, more and more mass graves are found, more and more documents that proves communistic crimes are found, many commies repeats the same lies that were produced by commies propaganda many years ago and repeated by "useful idiots" (check what that term means, and who used it, its not mine) in all world.
At least....if in USSR there were not communism, why do you, as I guess communist, like that theme? You should not like Soviet regime that was something completelly opposite to "good communism". If USSR was not communistic country it was not communistic victory. Can you explain that? |
| | | Re: Re: answer
Jul 27 2005 on content Communist Victory |
Old joke but good joke, and... international ;-)
Ok, let's finish discussion, but I encourage you to read more about history, in different sources. It is very interesting and you will see that many things are not such simple as they may look at the beginning. |
| | | answer
Jul 23 2005 on content Communist Victory |
This is an answer to Potemkin post in discussion, it seems me that treat is closed, so I add the new one.
I am sorry Potemkin, but reading your text is for me like traveling in the time. It looks mostly like text taken from soviet handbook of history for children written in the time of Stalin regime. History is not such simple, communists are not white and all others are not black.
It was for me questionable if it is sence in discussing, but finally I decided to answer. I am sure, that when you read my post you will think that all what I wrote are "imperialistic lies" and "american propaganda" or something like that. If I am right in my suspecions, don't lost a time to answer. I have a better idea. Let's check if I am liar. Search books and internet and check if I am wrong. But not limit yourself to soviet books. "The truth will make you free" :-)
Also, I must add that I am really happy that you wrote your post. In fact, you confirmed that it is very naive to think that communists stopped its totallitary way of thinking. You evidently still believe that Stalins methods were OK, and if communists will be enough strong, we may suspect that you will use the same methods like Stalin. You shold discuss also with weatheredwatcher, he thinks that it is possible to agree communism with liberty.
So, let's go
> From the moment of its birth, the Soviet Union was
> encircled by enemies who wanted nothing more than to
> strangle it in its cradle.
The main enemy of Soviet Union and communists who ruled it were their own citizens. They were the main target of represions and many of them were fighting with bolshevics.
And.. try to wonder, why countries that were surrounding Russia were their enemies, and what were their aims?
> The Western imperialists invaded the Soviet Union in 1918
> (the 'Intervention')
It is great oversimplification, myth built by communists to present Soviet Union as a poor country surrounded by enemies, that might justify all genocides, crimes, russian/soviet imperialism etc..
In fact, the Western countries (GB, France, USA and Japan) during "intervention" sent comparativelly small expeditions, mainly to prevent Russia from desintgration and also to safe their transports of ammunition that they had sent before to help russian govermnent. It was reasonable, Russia was allied with them. They were never sent enough strong forces to perform any serious operations, although their white russian friends were bagging for help.
They had really great military potential to crush Red Army in short time, but they didn't not used it. Notce, that in 1920 soviet army were beated by polish forces that were much less in number of soldiers and weaker equipped than french or british armies.
Other nations like Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Finns, Bielorussians etc, (some of them supported by Germans soldiers that remained in Central Europe) were liberating themselves from russian (and german, austrian) occupation and fighting fot their independance. In many cases they were also fighting each others. They were not seriously involved in internal russian-russian fights, moreover reds were for them not worse than whites. For example Poles in 1920 refused to help Denikin, probably it saved bolshevics.
> and started a Civil War
The Civil War was started by Lenin and company. In first and last free election in Soviet Union bolshevics gained c.a. 24% of votes. So, it is difficult to say that they were supported by russian citizens. But communists, as usually, knew better what people think, want and need than people, so they overtake the rule with a use of force. Moreover they officialy announced Civil War. Trotscki said: "Our party is for civil war. Civil war is war for bread. Cheers for civil war!". In May and June 1918 bolshevics government annouced decrees about requisitions of food from peasants. See also below. Communists lost possibility to built modern, free, democratic country and choose the civil war.
> in which
> millions of workers and peasants were killed.
The most of workers and peasants were murdered by communists. It is a myth that peasants and workers commonly supported communists, contrary to the other options. Especially peasants. At the beginning they were happy that they got fields, but when bolshevics ordered them to give their food, cows and later farms to government, they changed their feels to reds. Peasants were defending their properties, formed groups of partisants fighting against bolshevics. In July and August 1918 in the territories controled by communists, about 110 uprisings of peasants were noticed. Of course government classified them as "kulaks rebelies", however all classes in villages participated them (both poor, and rich peasants). During next three years peasants made much more rebelies and riots, suppresed by communists with brutal force and atrocities. Later, Stalin made forced famine on Ukraine and other teritories that resulted in millions of death victims. The number of victims of starvation and communistic crimes on Ukraine during that forced famine was comparable to number of Jews murdered by nazis during the holocaust. The total number of victims of collectivisation in Soviet Russia was at least two times higher. Also workers made many protets and demonstrations, communists answered as usuall....
> It was those same imperialists who had started the
> First World War,
bolshevisc? ;-))
> a completely unnecessary conflict in which countless
> millions were killed and which reduced Europe to ruin,
However there were also positive results of WW I. Many nations liberated themselves from russian, german and austrian occupation and formed their own states.
> caused by nothing more than the imperialist Powers of
> Europe trying to divvy up the spoils of imperialism.
If you want to say something about imperialism, please answer yourself: how many of nations and countries were incorporated in Russia, and later in Sovied Union? British and French empires were desintegrated in short time after WWII, but soviet empire survived much longer. Wasn't empire?
> It is true that Lenin, and after him Stalin, set up a
> system of corrective-labour camps, in which thousands
> and eventually millions of people were imprisoned.
If they were 'corrective' for anbybody, maybe for some of the communists who realised there how their system really looks like.
> However, this was entirely necessary -
Oh yes, to built totalitary system. The same way of explanaton was presented by nazis to justify holocaust.
> there were elements within Soviet society who longed
> for the return of the capitalist-imperialists, who
> were eager to sell their country to its enemies.
I see that you completelly don't know what was GULAG, and who was imprisoned there. At the beginning of course probably true enemies of the new system were imprisoned. But soviet regime was terrible efficient in "cleanig" the country from opossition, so true opposision quickly was imprisoned or murdered.
But totalitary system cannot exist without enemy, and Stalin neded to have millions of slave workers to built its "great power". In his country and in countries that were invaded by Soviets he had a lot of people who could be changed into slaves. So, there were imprisoned for example people who were not enough entusiastic to new system, who were criticizing some of achievements of soviet technology, educated people including professors, teachers, policemen, former soldiers, people who were travelling abroad, even stamp collectors (because they COULD have contact with people in other countries) etc.
When NKVD members couldn't find enough number of 'peoples enemies' they frequently catched random people, they knew that if they would not be enough efficient in catching "enemies" it will be called as 'sabotage'. Of course not all of victims were enclosed in GULAG, some of them were deportaded to Kazakhstan, Siberia and other places, frequently with all families including children. Frequently 'enemies' were murdered and families deportated. Many of them did not survived even transport that took sometimes few months. Many of people were just murdered and hidden in mass graves.
Moreover, Stalin also imprisoned and murdered most of old communists, generals and officers of Red Army. It was one of the causes why soviet army, the biggest in the world, was such easily bitten at the beginning of german invasion on SU. So, millions of victims killed by Germans may also be 'gracefull' to Stalin.
You should also read more how Stalin was murdering members of "comintern' and many other communists. So, be carefull, if your dreams will come true and stalinism will be back one day, you will be a very good candidate to live in camp.
> Indeed, in 1991, they did precisely this - Russia was
> literally sold off to the highest bidder. Not since the
> time of the fall of ancient Rome has such cynical treason
> been seen.
Really? It was one of the best things that Russia had done ever. You could try to save SU only by a force, but that would result in next civil war, much more bloody than previous one. Some of the nations built heir own states, others released themselves from soviet domination. Is it bad? For whom? Only for russian/soviet imperialists. Neither for Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Bielaussians etc.. nor for normal Russians who respects the human rights it shouldn't be something wrong. Russia lost part of their empre, but not russian country. Russians had also their chance to built democratic country, for free people. It is subject for other discussion if that chance was used or lost.
Do you think that Russia have right to decide how other nations may live?
And don't compare Soviet Union to Roman Empire. Romans joined many teritorries, many of people changed into slaves, but were widespread culture, development and civilization. What was a result of soviet domination? What soviets left in European countries that were under their control or occupation? Poverty and backwardness. Who will pay for it?
> These traitors and enemies of the working people existed in
> Lenin's time and in Stalin's time;
The worst enemies for Russian people are your own dictators, Lenin and mostly Stalin were murdered probably more soviet people than Hitler and all your external enemies together. They built terror that stroke mainy citizens of their country.
> they formed a vast Fifth Column inside Soviet society.
> Without the Gulag, these elements would have thrown open
> the gates of the nation to Hitler's Wehrmacht, thereby
> handing victory in WWII to the Nazis.
The same was said by nazis about Jews. Results were simillar also.
> By preventing this,
> Stalin saved the world from the nightmare of a Nazi
> takeover.
You are talking about collaboration with a Hitler? Don't you know who was Hitler's closed ally? Who signed German-Soviet pact in 1939? SU together with III Reich divided Europe. At first they parted Poland, after german attack Stalin waited 17 days waiting when Hitler crush main Polish forces, and joined the invasion. Soviet and Germans forces organized common victory parade in Brest Litovsk (you should make another theme "communists victory" with a photo taken there). Stalin was actively collaborating with Hitler supporting him with oil, food and other natural sources, also nazis and NKVD were collaborating together in fighting against polish resistance movement.
Stalin was so active in collaboration that even gave to gestapo german anti-fasists who escaped from Germany to Sovied Union. Soviet soldiers were shooting to people who were escaping from territories occupied by nazis to SU, soviet newspapers were annoucing the frienship and brotherhood forever between Soviet Russia and Germany.
Later, Stalin attacked Finland (and lost many soldiers, brave Finns were fighting much better than Russians), joined Baltic countries and Bukovina (of course in soviet point of view it was not imperialism). When Hitler attacked France his tanks were fulled by russian oil, communists in France were sabotting french defense, in USA they tried to stop american help for Great Britain. Alliance and brothership of two totallitary systems. However of course both friends were thinking how to betray his ally.
> And most of the ruling classes of the Eastern European
> nations had eagerly collaborated with the Nazis during
> the War;
In some cases it is true, in others not. In some cases it can be easilly explained. In countries that were allied with Germany before the war, an impotrant factor was that they feared communism. At that time nazis murdered much less people than communists. Moreover e.g. Hungary had short experience with communists. During the war, e. g. Latvia and Lithuania were organized forces that were collaborating with Germans. But first occupants of these countries were Russians, not Germans. Soviet invaders established bloody terror in occupied countries, including mass crimes, mass deportations and other 'goodies' that they usually offered to "protected" nations. When Germans kiced off sovied army, they were invited as liberators. Beria planned a next big deportations for citizens of that coutries for a night 27/28 June 1941, so German invasions for many of potential victims could be really seen as liberation and saving their life. In their point of wiev: "the enemy of our enemy is our friend". And when you are talking about responsibility of nations remember that also more than million of soviets soldiers joined german forces (e.g. Vlasov).
On the other hand it is interesting who was called by soviet propaganda to be nazi collaborators. For example NKVD invited for a meeting members of polish underground government for negotiations about future fate of Poland. Soviets guarranted their safety by "honour of Red Army". When Poles appeared, they were kidnapped to Moscow. These people were fighting agains Germans since first days of WWII, were fighting when soviets were collaborating with nazis, formed the biggest underground resistance movement in Europe, but finally were said to be... germans collaborators. Also many other members of resistance movements were arested, tortured, deportaded or murdered, even those who were during several monts fighting together with Soviets against Germans. It is one of the most striking examples of soviet lies, betrayal and propagada.
> their oppressed peoples were liberated from the Nazi yoke
> by the Soviet Red Army.
Yes, soviet soldiers saved life of many people. Really many people in these countries remember it. But soviet army did not give a real freedom and independance for these countries. It established new regime that resulted in next deportations, mass crimes etc. Even if that new regime was after war not such terrible as nazi terror it was real terror and many of people who survived nazi occupation, even who were fighting against germans during many years, did not survive soviet "liberation".
> The threat of a renewed attack from the imperialists
> remained after 1945, doubly so since the West had the
> Bomb and the Soviet Union had only its conventional
> forces to protect itself.
They had bomb, before russians stole its technology, they could destruct you completelly, but they didn't. Why? See also how many people were under communists rule in 1945 and how many were 10, 20, 30 years later. Communism, bloody totalitary system was spreaded quickly and it was dangerous for the humanity. It gave powerty, starvation, terror and death for hundreeds of millions of people. Fortuatelly, finally it was stopped and defeated, in many of countries. Not only by 'capitalist countries' but also or maybe mainly, by citizens (including workers and peasants) of countries when communists ruled.
> To draw Eastern Europe into the Soviet sphere of
> influence was therefore an absolute stategic necessity
> - there could be no repetition of Hitler's surprise
> Blitzkrieg of 1941.
Naive explanation. Soviets paranoid obsessions did not give them right to occupy other countries.
SU was the biggest country in the world, but neither for SU nor for Russian Empire it never was enough. Soviet imperialists were not thinking about defensing themeselves or anybody else, but about conquering the world and widespread communism over the world, that was comunnistic doctrine. Notice that the military forces of Warsaw Pact had typical character of offensive, not defensive, army.
> And the policy worked - the West did not invade
> again for another four decades.
...but Soviets invaded other countries.
> You talk of the millions who suffered and died in the camps;
Yes, however as I can see, for communists as for nazis it is completelly not a problem.
There are much more of simillarities between communists and nazis, but it is also subject for other discussion.
> what of the millions who suffered and died in the
> wars of imperialism,
Many of people, but don't forget that many of these conflicts were also wars with a huge partcipation of soviet imperialism, including WWII.
> in the slums and ghettos of capitalist societies,
OK, tell me how many millions of people died in capitalists ghettos during last 90 years in Europe and America? Why people risk their life escaping from communistic countries?
> and in the Nazi death camps?
Less than in communistic camps in Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, Noth Korea etc...
By the way, do you know that some of nazi camps were still working after WWII, but under soviet rule?
> The Soviet Union, and its armed forces, saved the world from that.
Not only Soviet Union. East front was not the only one. Also you were supported by transport of food, ammunition, weapons, vehicles...., by partisants actions, that destroyed many of german transports going to east front. By the way, many of these partisants were after "liberation" arrested, tortured,, imprisoned or just murdered by Soviets or their collaborators.
OK, now think about it, read books or at least Internet, check if I am wrong. If you want to continue the discussion, write me at my e-mail. |
| | | Re: Re: HATE TO YOU
Jul 16 2005 on content Communist Victory |
There are communist countries in the meaning they are ruled by communists. In every country ruled by communists, they established dictatorship, accompanied by terror, camps and usually by genocides. In every case there were a lot of slogans about egalitarism, justice, freedom but always it was finished like in "Animal farm", everybody was equal but some of "equal" people were "more equal" than others and those who were not fit to regime were imprisoned, tortured, closed in camps, murdered or in the best case "only" discriminated. It was not freedom but bloody regimes.
It is not "propoganda that the United States Government spewed out" (as you described it on your web site) but experiences of people who were living in these countries. Soviet films are not good source of truth about that system. Rather read e.g. books of people who survived soviet camps, soviet invasion and occupation, deportations, etc. They are more reliable than soviet propaganda.
How many people must die more to prove you that way to communism is wrong way? Next 100 millions of victims?
Nazizm was commonly condemned, but it is strange that although communists are resposible for much more death victims than nazis, communism still have many sympathizers, even between educated people living in countries where is wide access to information. Maybe it is because communism had no its "Nuremberg trial", and whereas many nazis had their trials in fact nobody was punished for communistic genocides.
Before you will write articles about your ideal system think about these millions of children, old people, woman and men, who were, and still are mudered in camps, died from forced famines, totured, deportated, shot down. And think about your resposibility for possible futher tragedies that your ideas may cause.
OK, That's all, it is not a place to discuss about politics (but politic theme provoke it). Moreover, reading your site, I see that it would be finished in loooong discussion ;-) |
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