|  | | Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whoa whoa whoa..
Mar 15 2003 on poll Is war agains Iraq the answer? |
If you had read carefully you would have noticed that I wrote they started a war and expelled arabs from palestine and [then] founded a state. Actually, the hostilities might have started already in december '47 after Britain refused to implement the UN recommendations of a partition plan.
Till May 1948 (when Israel was proclaimed) more then 200.000 palestines (first wave of refugees) had been expelled. Various massacres had taken place, like "Dir Yassin" (09.04.1948) a village where IZL (Irgun Tzvai Leumi) and LHI (Lohamei Herut Israel) underground army units slaughtered some 250 villagers.
There were also attacks from arabs on Jews so it was to some degree a mutual conflict.
You are talking about a different war (war of independence) when five neighboring arab countries started an offensive on the newly proclamed state (14 may 1948). Indeed, this war, too, started in 1948 and can to some extend even be seen as a succession of the former so it's quite understandable that you confused that.
Yes, Israeli arabs are granted the same rights as all Israelis, buying land included.
I was talking about those arabs who were expelled and want to return to their old hometowns and vilages in Israel. They aren't allowed to buy land while other foreigners (if that term is even appropriate for palestines) are.
And Jews proudly fought in the german military in WWI and formally had the same rights as all germans but still they were treated as 2nd class citizens as are arabs in Israel as the recent non-admittance of Arab representatives by the electoral comittee (which was revoked by the
supreme court later) made clear.
According the quote, you're right, shame on me. I merely rememberd some parts, typed them into google and simply copied the whole statement without further research, my bad. I apaolgize for my lack of diligence.
In 'Oz book it's a mister "Z" who's mentioned as originator, but his discription fit rather well to Sharon thus the popular minsunderstanding was created.
It's probably the statement of another Israeli General who wanted to stay anonymous.
The author indeed said that it wasn't Sharon later.
I still stick to my conviction that Sharon is, by no means, a man of peace, though. |
| | | Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whoa whoa whoa..
Mar 14 2003 on poll Is war agains Iraq the answer? |
That former post was me, herschel
What's wrong with this anonymous thing...
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| | | Re: Re: Re: Whoa whoa whoa..
Mar 14 2003 on poll Is war agains Iraq the answer? |
You've put up a very detailed yet absolutely one sided view on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict...
Here's something for the balance
The "generous" Oslo offer
http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/faruqui_worsethan.cfm.cfm
http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/chomskyapril9.cfm
Why do some Palestinians hate Israelis? http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/levy_terror-infrastructure.cfm
http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/arnoved'amato.cfm
http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/avnery-real-aim.cfm
Whether you like it or not, they are your bastard offspring. Everything they know about hate, you taught them. Everything they forgot about humanity, you made them forget. Give them a hug now, as they have proven themselves worthy of their parents - you -- Gabriel Ash
You see, there's always more than but one side...
And before you rub some Anti-semitism allegations in my face...
I don't deny Israels right to exist, I have no resentiments against the israeli people or jews in general whatsoever.
But I don't close my eyes and ignore the simple facts of the conflict. And to me it's quite clear that only Israel can make the first step to end it by stopping the illegal, brutal occupation and acknowledge Palestines right to exist. As a matter of fact, even a majority of the Israelis themselves think that this would be the right thing to do.
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| | | Re: Re: Re: Whoa whoa whoa..
Mar 13 2003 on poll Is war agains Iraq the answer? |
There's definitely been an inflatory inadequate use of the word "anti-Americanism"...
Do people consider the warmongers in Washington to be America?
Of course not.
When people are condemning warcrimes, commited by US military abroad, are they insuating that all Americans are criminals?
Of course not.
Granted, some things that have been said are close to the limit but I haven't seen one example of anti-Americanism here.
(maybe I'm just numbed a little by the anti-semitism debate we had in my country a while ago where the accusation of anti-semitism was excessively used as killer-argument to put down justified criticism of Israel's palestina policy)
Most people can very well distinguish the US people and it's achievements from the US administration and it's policies.
Unfortunately they often say Americans when actually referring to the state and not it's people.
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| | | Re: Re: Perspective
Mar 13 2003 on poll Is war agains Iraq the answer? |
It's not that they made that decision on their own though.
They were kind of dragged into it by the japanese attack on pearl harbour.
Interestingly, the japanese did that as a "preemtive strike" to hinder the pacific fleet from meddling with their colonial interests in south east asia.
They joined the war in europe after it became clear that the reich wouldn't stop the red army, so they went in to prevent the soviets from rolling over all of europe, nothing wrong with that, though, but it was certainly not to shorten the war.
And after that they could have done better, too, for example accept Stalins proposal of a united, neutral germany (like Austria for example) instead of enforcing a devision just for gaining control over the industrial capacities in the western zones.
France is an interesting matter as well, always being reminded of it's WWII dept while it's deliberately forgotten that the french support was crucial for the victory in the American's war of independence. The gratitude even goes as far as renaming french fries to freedom fries... |
| | | Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M$ = USA, :-)
Mar 12 2003 on poll Is war agains Iraq the answer? |
Sorry, I couldn't identify anything that lives up to the term sarcasm...
Albeit knowing that you're beyond help I thought I could at least give enlightening you a try, my fault.
I'm surprised that you know me good enough to tell that my life has no purpose but I'm pretty sure to know what you think the purpose of your life is.
Maybe in a few decades even in you will come to a conclusion similar to his
former Marine Gen. Smedley Butler, 1934 :
"I spent 33 years...being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism...I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1916. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City [Bank] boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the rape of a half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street."
back then or today, motivations are basically the same... |
| | | Re: Re: Re: Re: M$ = USA, :-)
Mar 12 2003 on poll Is war agains Iraq the answer? |
Quote "Educate yourselves people!"
I can only return that...
If you're really interested in gaining some insight in current world affairs (which, frankly, I doubt) go here : http://www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm |
| | | Re: Re: M$ = USA, :-)
Mar 12 2003 on poll Is war agains Iraq the answer? |
When you type "IDIOT" and "TRAITOR" are you screaming the words with foam before your mouth?
Resorting to that level of ad hominem agrumentation just exposes you to be the blissfully ignorant retard that you are. |
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