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SiS6326

by anonymous on: Dec 31 2001

Score 50%

inactive user

Does the graphic card SiS6326 support XRender?

Reply to this

i think so

by anonymous on: Jan 1 2002

Score 50%

inactive user

im pretty sure this is the card my roomate has, and im also pretty sure we got AA fonts working on his setup

Reply to this

Yes it does!

by anonymous on: Jan 3 2002

Score 50%

inactive user

Yes if you have XFree86 4.1.0....

Reply to this

sis6326

by anonymous on: Jan 3 2002

Score 50%

inactive user

I have the SiS6326 graphic card integrated into motherboard.
I have RH7.2 with XFree 4.1.0 but the extension RENDER missing on display.
What should I do?

Reply to this

sis6326

by anonymous on: Jan 5 2002

Score 50%

inactive user

problem with sis6326 resolved!! :))))
thanks

Reply to this

Wrong!

by anonymous on: Dec 31 2001

Score 50%

inactive user

This uses the same method to get the background as Liquid does (it grabs a "screenshot" of the background before displaying the menu). It's not real transparency, nor does it use XRender for transparency. All it uses XRender for is to blend or darken/lighten the background screenshot instead of KPixmapEffect, but this isn't what is slow. What is slow is the grabbing of the background, so you won't see either better transparency or a noticable speed improvement with this method.

Reply to this

So why...

by anonymous on: Dec 31 2001

Score 50%

inactive user

...so why doesn't somebody just add this so-called "real" transparency instead of diddling with the "fake" transparency? Is is especially difficult or something (which would be a valid reason for not getting implemented)? Eterm, if I recall, has it, so why not Konsole and the rest of KDE?

(Before someone smarts off about me shutting up and writing a patch myself, I'm not a programmer, and nor should I be to ask a question or suggest a feature. I am a user - somebody who actually uses the darn thing in the real world to get work done, which entitles me some input in the direction of it's development. The UI should be shaped to the users, not the users shaped to the UI.)

As to the question of why do we need transparency and other such eye-candy: we need a GUI that goes beyond simple UI "needs". All most people truly "need" is a simple menu-driven console-based UI. But I imagine if KDE were that it wouldn't get very far. Looks are extremely important for a UI - it's what the user deals with. We need one that's modern and innovative, one that gets the jobs done AND goes beyond Windows and OSX, not one that gets the job done but lags behind in terms of looks. Switching to Linux on the desktop is a bit of a bit of step backwards in terms of productivity software (Evolution and Star/OpenOffice are still playing catch-up to Office); we need step backwards in our UI. Right now, KDE is slightly ahead of the Windows GUI, but that won't hold for long, and we need to surpass OS X.

Reply to this

What do we need?

by anonymous on: Dec 31 2001

Score 50%

inactive user

First of all we need a UI which will make Linux well-known. We must pick out good things from MAC and also from $WIN$! and then make something new.
Translucence is the firs "good" thing (of course the real one), so Liquid (with some improvements) could be a default Linux/KDE UI in KDE3, which will realy give us what we need - UI, which will make Linux famous.
Just an opinion in suggestion for developers

Reply to this

One Word - X

by anonymous on: Jan 8 2002

Score 50%

inactive user

From what I've heard it's simply not possible in an X11 system to keep a track of a part of a window (which is what even the desktop is) without screenshots.

Berlin was to offer some hope in this department but it's gone off in a weird and deeply convoluted tangent.

It might be possible to do something like this by writing an X extension, but that's an X11 thing, not a KDE thing, and I'd imagine it would be very difficult and involved.

Reply to this

Real transparency

by anonymous on: Dec 31 2001

Score 50%

inactive user

You won't see real transparency between apps or the root window using XRender until the translucency server Keith is working on comes out. Then you will have real hardware, accelerated transparency and I'll support that. The issue is that not only do you need a way to blend alpha channels, you also need to be able to share the data between applications. It's all well and and good that you can alphablend pixels, and that's why you can do things like font-smoothing now in KDE, but there is no current mechanism to blend things in different applications, for example a toplevel window and the window below it. So this usage of XRender isn't really useful. It doesn't have anything to do with alphablending at all - it still just grabs the root window before displaying the menu. Actually I consider it an inferior implementation to Liquid because there isn't any visible speed gain and for non-accelerated cards there is a loss of speed, and all for no improvement in quality. mosfet@interaccess.com

Reply to this

Thanks

by anonymous on: Dec 31 2001

Score 50%

inactive user

Thanks for the info, Mosfet! That clears a lot of things up (no pun intended...alright, it was inteded grin). And migthy fine GUI programmer you are, I might add!

Is this translucency server in the KDE 3.x timeline, or will that be something for KDE 4? It sounds like a rather arduous undertaking, and I wish the developer well.

Reply to this

Re:Menu Transparency

by anonymous on: Dec 31 2001

Score 50%

inactive user

hmm, didn't the cvs log say:
"Add a preliminary version of KStyle which includes XRender..." ???

Its a preliminary version as the log says. Interestingly enough, you call it inferior even before the coder has finished it. Looking in the code, there is a software fallback, and there will probably be more. Most preliminary versions code I have tried are complete rubbish. At least this one is respectable.

As for "So this usage of XRender isn't really useful." Well, it is accelerated when Xrender is accelerated. I guess there's some use to that wouldn't you say? As for your "superior" Liquid, its never accelerated.

Reply to this

just use directfb

by hash on: Apr 22 2002

Score 50%

hash

everaybuddy just shut up and use directfb. they have X support in the next release. (http://www.directfb.org/)

Reply to this

XRender

by anonymous on: Dec 31 2001

Score 50%

inactive user

Sure it's preliminary, but it uses the exact same method for alpha-transparency as Liquid. That hasn't changed at all. So to say it provides "Real XRender Translucent Menus" is misleading at best since the translucency between menus and the background is the exact same as Liquid's. This is what I don't like. As far as what method is inferior and what is superior, using XRender just to lighten or darken the background screenshot requires the user to know if they have an accelerated XRender card, something not easily ascertained, or else it will be slower, with no visible increase in speed or quailty in translucency. I'll let you decide if that's a good idea or not.

Reply to this

On the same theme

by anonymous on: Jan 1 2002

Score 50%

inactive user

http://www.xfree86.org/~keithp/talks/KeithPackardAls2000/index.html
and a little screenshot :
http://www.xfree86.org/~keithp/render/translucent.png

Reply to this

Yep, that is it :)

by anonymous on: Jan 1 2002

Score 50%

inactive user

That is the real translucency I was talking about. Keith is supposed to be working on the server for it, but he's a busy guy and their is still work to be done on XRender itself. mosfet@interaccess.com

Reply to this

http://www.eax.com/render/

I think not only the Window manager might use the translucency, the widget toolkits (like GTK+, or the excellent Qt ;) must manage the translucency themselves. Why ? See http://weirdx.sourceforge.net/image/20000613-weirdx-alpha.png
In that screenshot, we can see that the box with list of files is totally opaque, even if the rest of the dialog window is tranlucent. It's a good idea, because the rest of the dialog window contain no important information, and the list of files box is more readable thanks that difference of tranlucency.

Reply to this

bleh .....

by anonymous on: Jan 12 2002

Score 50%

inactive user

Then why just not to make something really amazing like absolute 3D interface with hi-polygon transluent 3D models for windows and menus, table fogs for inactive windows and cool animations like in Enlightement, that will use 3D accelerators. Something that were never seen before, something in front of what everything will fade.

Reply to this

Re:

by anonymous on: Jan 16 2002

Score 50%

inactive user

Time constraints, unfortunately, are what limit things from being amazing.

Reply to this

But it will come.

by wowtip on: Feb 19 2002

Score 50%

wowtip

Some day. And then people won't accept old 2D interfaces anymore. And finally, our desktops and the ones we see at the movies will look the same. ;)

Reply to this

But it will come.

by wowtip on: Feb 19 2002

Score 50%

wowtip

Some day. And then people won't accept old 2D interfaces anymore. And finally, our desktops and the ones we see at the movies will look the same. ;)

Reply to this

But it will come.

by wowtip on: Feb 19 2002

Score 50%

wowtip

Some day. And then people won't accept old 2D interfaces anymore. And finally, our desktops and the ones we see at the movies will look the same. ;)

Reply to this

Ugh.

by wowtip on: Feb 19 2002

Score 50%

wowtip

Ok, learned one thing today. Never hit [back] in Opera after posting on Kde-look. Definately not three times.

Reply to this

goto page:

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SiS6326

Does the graphic card SiS6326 support XRender?

i think so

im pretty sure this is the card my roomate has, and im also pretty sure we got AA fonts working on his setup

Yes it does!

Yes if you have XFree86 4.1.0....

sis6326

I have the SiS6326 graphic card integrated into motherboard. I have RH7.2 with XFree 4.1.0 but the extension RENDER missing on display. What should I do?

sis6326

problem with sis6326 resolved!! :)))) thanks

Wrong!

So why...

What do we need?

One Word - X

Real transparency

Thanks

Re:Menu Transparency

just use directfb

everaybuddy just shut up and use directfb. they have X support in the next release. (http://www.directfb.org/)

XRender

On the same theme

http://www.xfree86.org/~keithp/talks/KeithPackardAls2000/index.html and a little screenshot : http://www.xfree86.org/~keithp/render/translucent.png

Yep, that is it :)

That is the real translucency I was talking about. Keith is supposed to be working on the server for it, but he's a busy guy and their is still work to be done on XRender itself. mosfet@interaccess.com

see also...

bleh .....

Re:

Time constraints, unfortunately, are what limit things from being amazing.

But it will come.

Some day. And then people won't accept old 2D interfaces anymore. And finally, our desktops and the ones we see at the movies will look the same. ;)

But it will come.

Some day. And then people won't accept old 2D interfaces anymore. And finally, our desktops and the ones we see at the movies will look the same. ;)

But it will come.

Some day. And then people won't accept old 2D interfaces anymore. And finally, our desktops and the ones we see at the movies will look the same. ;)

Ugh.

Ok, learned one thing today. Never hit [back] in Opera after posting on Kde-look. Definately not three times.

I have the SiS6326 graphic card integrated into motherboard.
I have RH7.2 with XFree 4.1.0 but the extension RENDER missing on display.
What should I do?

problem with sis6326 resolved!! :))))
thanks

http://www.xfree86.org/~keithp/talks/KeithPackardAls2000/index.html
and a little screenshot :
http://www.xfree86.org/~keithp/render/translucent.png