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 Time out

 
 by Rodion on: Sep 27 2002  
Score 50%
RodionRodion

First off, I respect Mosfet. I like what he's done for KDE and judging by the popularity of his work, a lot of other people feel that he makes Good Stuff (TM). But he needs to take a deep breath and calm down. He is not going to "win friends and influence people" by packing up his toys and going to another sandbox. Yeah, I agree that what RH is doing to KDE is pretty low; legal, but low. That's why I run Debian. :) RH != Linux. All of the other distros (SuSE, Mandrake, Debian, etc.) all respect KDE, should we get all bent out of shape and threaten to leave _everyone_ just because one distro is not playing fair? Life is too short, and blood pressure medication too expensive to ignore the more beneficial means of petition and polite remonstration.


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 it's not just redfat

 
 by iPaqTux on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
iPaqTuxiPaqTux

I believe he is also angry because KDE chose Keramik for the default 3.1 theme instead of his Liquid (which is much better).

What I wish is that mosfet would have resumed work on Kicker. We still can't create drawers, etc. and if you make your panel less than 100% wide, you can't access the desktop menus when clicking on the unused space.

Also editing icons in Kicker's menus is a pain and often it doesn't update stuff until you make it restart.

I haven't tried the 3.1 kicker, however.


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 Matter of taste...

 
 by PARENA on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
PARENAPARENA
Home

Ones likes Keramik more, another likes Liquid more. I personally prefer Liquid. You can't say one is better than the other. It's a matter of personal preferense... besides, Liquid has 'faked' translucency while there is XRender to do that for ya...


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 WOOPS!

 
 by PARENA on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
PARENAPARENA
Home

I wrote it wrong: I personally prefer KERAMIK! lol :)


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 regardless of taste

 
 by Spiral Man on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
Spiral ManSpiral Man

regardless of your tastes, kde chose keramik over liquid (or they should have anyway) because liquid is a ripoff of a different OS's look and feel, which not only raises some integrity questions, but, knowing apple's history with this, also raises some legal questions.

apple has shown their willingness to sue people who make aqua lookalike themes in the past, and if KDE made it the default theme, that would really get their attention.

personally, even if apple wasnt so stuck up about the aqua themes, i would rather kde didnt use liquid as the default, simply on principle, for the same reason.


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 liquid and kde

 
 by fault on: Oct 1 2002  
Score 50%
faultfault

mosfet never wanted liquid to be default in KDE.


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 RedHat Statement!

 
 by renoken on: Oct 9 2002  
Score 50%
renokenrenoken
RENO Productions
Home

Erik Troan, Red Hat's director of product marketing states: "We didn't want to use just GNOME and get KDE users upset. We didn't want to use just KDE and get GNOME users upset. Instead, we combined the two, and got everyone upset"


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 Distributions

 
 by reto on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
retoreto

All right, first of all: I agree with Mosfet - second: let me contribute to the age-old battle of the distributions that almost certainly will continue here.

I've been using both RedHat Linux (which always seemed very crappy to me, f.e. using beta-c++libs and beta kernel sources and so on) and also SuSE (which was MUCH better but completely overloaded with unnecessary software) or Mandrake (which had the advantage that a kid could install it). There are so many distributions that have advantages and disadvantages and I've got to say that the best one I've ever encountered is Linux From Scratch.

There, you only get a step-by-step guide on how to set up and what packages to download for a complete, working Linux System that exactly does what you want. The only problem is that you need a lot of time (3 days) and quite some knowledge of Linux, if you plan to make it perfect for you.

I'm using a customized, distro-free Linux that even runs both hardware-accelerated OpenGL games and Office Apps and LaTeX scripts etc. It's mine and EVERYTHING works because noone has tainted any libraries or package dependencies! I would suggest that everyone with a little more advanced Linux-knowledge than the Mandrake Manual should try LFS.

Anyone else using LFS?
Ciao, Reto


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 Nope

 
 by mrmunkily on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
mrmunkilymrmunkily

I'm using Redhat, which has given me plenty of trouble, but I have in the past used gentoo - with a _very_ positive experience. Unfortunately, I had to ditch that computer and needed an install fast, so I had to yoink redhat and put it on this here. I'm too entrenched to change it right now. Maybe next summer I'll ahve no high priority projects...


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 I use Gentoo Linux

 
 by GertThiel on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
GertThielGertThiel

Like LFS, Gentoo Linux builds from scratch and from original sources. On the other hand Gentoo introducted a very few but very helpful tools. For example: It has a very nice init system that handles dependencies automagically for me.

Thanks to the creators of Gentoo Linux.

Gert.


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 beta?

 
 by dvalin on: Oct 21 2002  
Score 50%
dvalindvalin
Delonic Technology Group AS
Home

you have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever, beta kernels?!?! you know, Alan Cox IS rh's kernel maintainer, so there is probably no other distro that has such a good kernel maintainer!:p

beta c++ libs? no way josé! rh release "gcc-2.96" because of gcc-2.95.3's lousy c++ support and it did'nt follow standards very well neither.

And when it comes to LFS and other similar distro's, NOONE serious uses these distro's, they lack the commercial support, package system, quality checking etcetc.

as for mosfet, I like liquid, but I think he's behaviour is childish and... uhm... no reason to dwell on that one and talking shit about others, but the behaviour is just plain stupid.


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 RE: beta?

 
 by Xanadu on: Oct 22 2002  
Score 50%
XanaduXanadu
Home

> Alan Cox IS rh's kernel maintainer, so there is probably no other distro that has such a good kernel maintainer!


You're an 1d107. Marcello? Ever hear of him? Conectiva? The 2.4.x Kernel maintainer? Shall I even mention who Everaldo works for?

Geesh...


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 eh?

 
 by dvalin on: Oct 23 2002  
Score 50%
dvalindvalin
Delonic Technology Group AS
Home

what has that to do with it?
marcello might be the 2.4 kernel maintainer now, since linus, alan cox etc. are now focusing on 2.5/2.6, and Cox has been hacking kernel since before even Marcello could spell it;)

and, WTF? Why are you mentioning Everaldo? are you stupid?

Anyways, from your reply I've already figured out that you must be just plain stupid, as my point was that rh had a very good kernel maintainer and claiming that rh is releasing "beta" kernels is just stupid(I don't think any kernel even has had a beta version, just test, pre, etc.)

To sum it all up and at the same time keeping up with the trolling and flaming, you're and incompetent idiot


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 RE: eh?

 
 by Xanadu on: Oct 23 2002  
Score 50%
XanaduXanadu
Home

> are you stupid?

I most certainly am not. You said: "there is probably no other distro that has such a good kernel maintainer!"

Not only did I prove otherwise, I even threw in that they also have another fellow that has created a (now) DEFAULT icon theme for KDE. You seemed to be under the inpression that RH is the be all and end all. They are not, they are only the most recognised name. Go check http://www.distrowatch.com to read and weep.

Survey says? BZZZT.


> (I don't think any kernel even has had a beta version, just test, pre, etc.)


LOL. What do you thnk "beta" means? A final version? No. It means "Pre-Release". So then what is a "pre" version? A Beta version... Just because it doesn't get called that, doesn't mean that's not what it is.

2.6 vs. 3.0 anyone? Same thing, two different names.


> you're and incompetent idiot

Am I? It seems I spouted off more in a couple sentances of knee-jerk than you were able to in a few paragraphs.

P.S.
> and... uhm... no reason to dwell on that one and talking shit about others

Interesting. Very interesting.


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 ..

 
 by dvalin on: Oct 24 2002  
Score 50%
dvalindvalin
Delonic Technology Group AS
Home

I never said anything about rh being the one and only, and that marcello is the 2.4 kernel maintainer does'nt mean he is the best kernel maintainer etc., and I also said only "probably", cox has been in this for a looong time, and I am pretty sure that he has alot more experience, just because linus himself is'nt the 2.4 kernel maintainer anymore, does'nt mean that marcello might be better, does it? and as I said; the reason that neither alan cox nor linus torvald maintains 2.4 is because they're focusing on 2.5

And I did'nt say that the kernels where final, I only pointed out that they've never been named "beta"

"2.6 vs. 3.0 anyone? Same thing, two different names." same thing, two different names? ehhr.. no? Linus still has'nt changed his name about the version name, and if it'll be 2.6 as he wants it to be named, 3.0 will be a totally different version.

and about mentioning designers in this is totally irrelevant, if you want to list up all people who has contributed stuff who works for linux companies like rh, suse etc. you will have to list up *alot* of people, and actually, rh would be one of them who has contributed the most.

Oh, btw. I don't use RH myself, so don't get the impression of me being a RH-fanatic


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.

 OK

 
 by Xanadu on: Oct 24 2002  
Score 50%
XanaduXanadu
Home

> and that marcello is the 2.4 kernel maintainer does'nt mean he is the best kernel maintainer etc.

OH. OK. I see what you're saying now. I guess I just read it wrong the first time.


> and if it'll be 2.6 as he wants it to be named, 3.0 will be a totally different version.

Indeed. But I was just pointing out that if it gets called 2.6 it would be the same code that *MAY* get called 3.0. That's all I was saying there.


> you will have to list up *alot* of people,

No arguement there. I just may have to continue to disagree with the whole RH thing, that's all.


> Oh, btw. I don't use RH myself, so don't get the impression of me being a RH-fanatic


LOL! Me neither... :-)
(I used to use it, but fell in love with MDK a couple years ago. I use Gentoo now, though)



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 I don't understand..

 
 by anonymous on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
inactive user

'I finally took mosfet.org offline some time ago and have not been involved in Linux since.Many of you know I've been getting frustrated with Linux for some time, and RedHat breaking KDE has been the last straw.'

As far as I remember you left Linux because of money. You stated on mosfet.org that you had to earn money to buy some food and pay your bills. RedHat has nothing to do with it.

'The issue is they also made several changes to the KDE libraries and programs, some of which cause breakage, incompatibilities, or reduce functionality. In some cases changing code wasn't even needed but RH didn't know better because all the people working on their customized fork never coded KDE before. '

As far as I remember you were kicked out from KDE core developers team because you committed you code which could couse breakage, incompatibilities or reduce functionality. And then, KDE developers forked your code and you were very angry about it. So mosfet, what's your point?

'The other problem is switching the default applications for things like the web browser and email client from their KDE implementations to Gnome apps while using the KDE desktop.'

Is it so difficult to accept that some people & some companies have a different opinion about things? RedHat is supporting Gnome, not KDE. This is not a secret. They think Mozilla is a better browser than Konqueror, and they think Evolution is a better email client than Kmail. They sell Linux not KDE.

'but by making non-native applications default within the KDE environment they are crippling KDE.'

How come? I made Gimp my default application here.

'Okay, but then why are you shipping KDE if you only want to support GTK/Gnome applications?'

False. Konqueror and Kmail are still there.

'I tried the latest Mozilla and the latest Konqueror and Konqueror both renders and runs far faster under KDE than Mozilla does under icewm, and I haven't found a site it can't handle. The Konqueror in KDE3.1 is way fast :) '

Mozilla and Konqueror are both fast under KDE. Unfortunatelly, I've found many sites Konqueror handles improperly but that is not Konqueror's fault (old 'site optimized for MS Explorer' thingy).

'As for the second point, that KDE is free software and RH can do whatever it wants to it, this is also a very unhealthy attitude for people to take. Remember that most free software is done by volunteers in their spare time.'

Unhealthy ot not, they have right to do that.

'If commercial Linux companies start disrespecting the goals of these volunteers too often people leave the community. '

Translated: RedHat disrespects mosftet's goals and that's the reason mosfet left the community.

'People feel like, "why work on free software if RH is just going to screw it up"? '

Yeah, and Apple thinks: why work on Aqua if Mosfet is going to screw it up with his Liquid?

'As you can tell, I'm pretty upset with Linux in general right now. It's been a massive time sink for me. Tons of email, lots of disrespect, and very little in return.'

What's relation between RedHat forking KDE and Mosfet's being upset with Linux in general? Readers will find the answer in the next sentence.

'I am not currently working on Linux anymore and probably won't return unless I was able to support myself working on it, preferably on a distribution...'

Is there any distribution out there to give our little pathetic Mosfet a job so he can support himself? Opps, I've forgotten... Mandrake fired him...

antialias


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 RE: I don't understa

 
 by anonymous on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
inactive user

From my time zone, I can see this post by anonymous came from Europe somewhere. Typical cowards, would not post who he/she is. No wonder us Americans had to go and rescue you people in WWII. Redhat and Mandrake are both turning into Microsoft Clones. Trying to Screw things up for all of us. Most of us are using Linux for the Freedom it give us, and redhat and drake are trying hard to take that Freedom away with their draconian way of thinking. Linux in general is not easy for new users to install, configure, and adjust to, and redhat and drake are just making things worse.
I agree with Mosfet and I think he should stand his ground!! And all the Whiners out there can go back to Windows and get screwed over by BGates if you don't like what Mosfet is doing or what he is trying to stand for!! I like the product that Mosfet has produced, the Liquid engine has been great for Linux and KDE, but I am not going to cry and whine for a newer version, That is NOT the Linux way of thinking. Do what you must Mosfet, there are alot of us standing behind you!!


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 Heh?

 
 by fenrir on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
fenrirfenrir

Mosfet will do what Mosfet can! Then, on to the real problem: Who saved what-now? You stupid americans did nothing but mop up after the britts and the russians et al had broken the blitz! It was in fact the russians who saved *your* ass from being whopped by nasty SS-soldiers! Cowards? Nah, we europeans just weren't prepared for the scale of the war, that's all. You stupid americans had to be such gung-ho bastards in which you actually *nuked* Japan to conquer them! I see you have made it into a traditon of bombing countries instead of using ground-forces; very honorable...

A quote that fits: "When the britts started shooting, the germans ducked. When the germans started shooting, the britts ducked. When the americans started shooting, everybody ducked!"


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 It's good to know..

 
 by JoeX on: Oct 18 2002  
Score 50%
JoeXJoeX

that there are jackasses on both sides of the ocean.


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 *Shew*....

 
 by Ty on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
TyTy

Thank you, anonymous person, for making Americans look like buttholes. You flame Europeans for being cowardly and not posting anonymously, but you do the same thing yourself. And now you;ve stirred up sophomoric emotional anti-American postings. Good job.


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 Hmm?

 
 by lpassos on: Sep 29 2002  
Score 50%
lpassoslpassos

AH! AH! AH! AH! AH!. *wipe the tears of the eyes* Aaaaaah! Thank you for the best joke I read today.

You kill me whoever you are! The thing I most appreciate in you americans is your sense of humor.

Honestly, I HAVE to believe this was flamebait. Noone is this ignorant without trying it very hard.


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 flamebait...

 
 by secretmethod70 on: Oct 1 2002  
Score 50%
secretmethod70secretmethod 70

While I am 100% positive the above is flamebait, I find it necesary to point out that the "anonymous" poster DID identify himself as antialias. Read the whole thing before making ignorant comments.


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 Mosfet

 
 by Aitvo on: Oct 1 2002  
Score 50%
AitvoAitvo
Home

If he wasn't such a damn baby, someone might care that he left. The community is better off without his instability. Anyone would be nieve to believe that what he's done can't be done by anyone else.


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 RE: I don't understa

 
 by dvalin on: Oct 21 2002  
Score 50%
dvalindvalin
Delonic Technology Group AS
Home

you saved us during ww2? bah, your lousy pathetic country did'nt move a finger to help until they got caught by a surprise by the japs, and you did even launch an atomic bomb, now that's worse than what hitler managed to do, well, anyways, most of the linux developers stand disagrees with mosfet, so ... I'll allow myself to go down to your level and make it simple and childish; STFU INCOMPETENT GIMP!


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 America late.

 
 by foobar3 on: Nov 20 2002  
Score 50%
foobar3foobar3

America got into the war late. America waited until the soviets had beaten the german war machine then came in on the western front . Why do you think it was such a horror to be "sent to the eastern front"
See, it was a "world war" the germans and the japanese wanted to conquer the world, not just a little piece of france and bits of england.
America avoided its responsibilty to the world (and eventually itself) until 1941, the war started in '39.
GI's did a great job - and one weeps at their sacrifice, but those responsible for keeping the u.s. out of the war should hang their head in shame. Stuff your blind arrogance.


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 Mandrake

 
 by brento73 on: Nov 30 2002  
Score 50%
brento73brento73
Troglodyte Records
Home

While I DO think the bastardized gnome/KDE thing is a bit weird, and I've never been a RH user, I'm curious why people feel the need to keep indicating that Mandrake is somehow not real linux, or is trying to take away your freedom. If you want, I can open a shell and su and config the whole damn thing by hand. I can do anything any other distro can do, at least as far as I've ever seen, so what's the issue? And, if I may ask, how is the ease of installation found in Mandrake making it worse for new users? That makes no sense.

I have to say that, as an American, I am often appalled by the horrible grammer and worse logical abilites of my countrymen.


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 Re: RE: I don't understa

 
 by baznew1 on: Apr 24 2003  
Score 50%
baznew1baznew1

just a quick note.
you never saved anyone in europe. the yanks have never won a war ( check your history....its only 200 years old shouldn't take long )


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 RE: I don't understa

 
 by sigmaiota on: Sep 28 2002  
Score 50%
sigmaiotasigmaiota

antialias: i totally agree with you.

with his latest update to his homepage, mosfet showed us how childdish he is.
and oh, i do not like RH behaviour on my own but this do not lead me to say the time i spend on linux is wasted.
ehy mosfet, come on, grow up!

sigma


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.

 Simple Solution.

 
 by loply on: Sep 29 2002  
Score 50%
loplyloply

Dont like RedHat? Me either.

Its crap.

So I use FreeBSD (router), Gentoo (desktop) and Debian (server).

Is that so hard? I know dozens of Linux distros which are crap. What difference does it make if its a major one or not?

Just dont use it. Any experienced Linux user will tell you that the only advantage Redhat has is a warranty for corporate organisations. It is inconceivable why anybody who doesnt need to have someone to sue if their distro breaks should use Redhat.

There are just BETTER DISTROS AVAILABLE. For god sake, any distro still based on an RPM system with no proper dependency resolution is just futile.

So to Mosfet, I say this. Please try to see the broader picture: Redhat is crap, other distros arent. So instead, come use Debian & Gentoo, and laugh with us about Redhat's blind Tom Foolery :)


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 I don't understand..

 
 by WinterWolf on: Sep 29 2002  
Score 50%
WinterWolfWinterWolf

Hey annonymous, you have no idea who Mosfet is, calling him pathetic is uncalled for and he probably has many more accomplishments than you. What have you ever contributed to Linux except a lot of bashing?

I am deeply upset about his decision, I don't think it is fair to Linux to leave just because one distribution screws up their act. If their changes are really bad than they will lose mindshare. It is after all their decison and right to make changes, this can be both the worst part and the best part of the GPL, accept it.
I hope Mosfet will get a job on one of the leading KDE based distributions like SuSE. He has a lot of talent, imo he is one of the best programmers in the world.

His High Performance Liquid also barely even resembles Aqua, and it si more powerful tahn Aqua, Aqua isn't half as customizable. oo bad we will never see HPL 1.0, it would probably beat Aqua and Luna into the ground.

I agree with most of what Mosfet said, except that GTK 1 programs would run slower in KDE than in GNOME 2. Evolutions hould open at the same speed for example.

Best wishes to mosfet!


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 Can you read?

 
 by anonymous on: Sep 30 2002  
Score 50%
inactive user

'Hey annonymous...'

First of all, I didn't post unonymously. My nick is antialias.

'you have no idea who Mosfet is...'

Yes, I know, a very talented coder, one of the best ones (KDE widgets, styles, Liquid, Pixie (Mosfet Paint) etc., etc.

'calling him pathetic is uncalled for and he probably has many more accomplishments than you.'

Of course, he has more accomplishments than me as a coder (BTW, I am not a coder), but he is still pathetic. I was not talking about Mosfet's IQ, I was talking about his emotional intelligence and personality. He needs a shrink, and a good one.

'What have you ever contributed to Linux except a lot of bashing?'

So, I am anonymous to you and you know that all my contributions to Linux is a lot of bashing. Now I am not only doubting about your emotional intelligence but also about your IQ.

'I am deeply upset about his decision...'

I am not, because knowing Mosfet it is not the first time he is doing this. He wants some attention from time to time.

'I don't think it is fair to Linux to leave just because one distribution screws up their act.'

No shit. He was pissed off when he lost his job (he worked for one of distros). Again, RedHat has nothing to do with his decision to leave Linux community. He had left before Redhat forked KDE desktop.

'I hope Mosfet will get a job on one of the leading KDE based distributions like SuSE.'

Me too. But now ask yourself: why doesn't he have a job on one of the leading KDE based distributions?
The answer is very simple: personality.

antialias


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 I'm with antialias

 
 by jstarship on: Sep 30 2002  
Score 50%
jstarshipjstarship

Mosfet is a great coder and has a great sense of style. Liquid is beautiful both visually and in elegance of coding. But I know lots of great coders that are, simply put, trolls to work with. This does not mean they are worthless to the community or even bad for it. It does mean that they unswervingly promote their own POV as the "correct" one.

Mosfet may just not be right for this community until he calms down and comes to terms with the general mindset of the Linux and KDE communities. This doesn't mean he has to agree with it, but that his blood pressure doesn't rise while working on it. An open source project can be like a bad job. There is a time to step back and quit, even for just a while.


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